General News NFL- Strong Offense / Donald Trump- Strongly Offensive

So, StarRunner, what, exactly is your point?

That you disagree with President Trump? That you think that he is 'wasting time' in office spent on these minuscule comments and Tweets?

From my point of view, playing the National Anthem at the start of any/all sporting events simply shows patriotism. And by that I mean patriotism is our national people, our national culture, and our national laws (the Constitution for the US).

So why do people like Kaepernick choose to show disloyalty to their own country? Your guess is as good as mine. It's not like the US Flag or the US Constitution misrepresents his concerns. It's really about current attitudes and policies within the US, isn't it? So, from my generally neutral point of view, when someone chooses to disrespect the simple symbols of the evolving open environment that I know and understand today, I have to wonder about the simply loyalty of those opposed. Are they 'really' opposed because they feel disenfranchised or are they being subordinated by outside causes (in this case, from the far Left?)

Just throwing a grenade out there to see what survives.

 

I can come to no other conclusion except to say that Trump is racist. He is attacking the NFL which is an entity with predominantly black players.

He didn't have a problem with the Nazi lovers, white supremacists or people who fly the Confederate flag because they are exercising their freedom of speech as white people. He even characterized some of them as ¨good people.¨ On the other hand these NFL players are ¨sons of bitches¨.

It's ironic how a small proportion of the American Right love freedom of speech that much but they have such a problem when other non white groups exercise theirs.

They embrace their racist past as their heritage but get upset with movements like Black Lives Matter. Hypocrisy at its best.

 

^I have to wonder why flying the Confederate flag, the flag of an army that fought the United States, is not considered "disloyal", but adopting a different bodily position during the national anthem is. It all sounds fairly arbitrary and ludicrous to me. It sounds like it has more to do with what "side" the people in question are on than their actions.

I also wonder if Trump's failed attempt to become an NFL team owner has more to do with his feud with them than Kaepernick, et. al. and their "knee taking".

 

Ignorance is bliss.

 

Maybe instead of spouting unhelpful platitudes (assuming this was a dig at KyleD's response), you could present an actual cogent counterargument. Perhaps this would fare better than "throwing grenades", as you say.

 

Are you advocating loyalty or uncritical deference?

I'm almost certain people like Colin Kaepernick vote, do their best to understand and follow the law and have hope that their nation can do better. The act of polite protest rather than resistance despite the violence of the wrongs against which they protest shows that they believe the United States has enough fundamental goodness to understand police brutality and racial profiling are contrary to the values the United States should have. That isn't an act of disloyalty.

The freedom to challenge uncritical attitudes towards the state is essential to liberal democracy. And when the elected government alternates between deliberately inflammatory rhetoric and ignoring racial profiling in policing, surely symbols of the state, controlled by that government, are perfect symbols against which to protest.

White America is almost unique in its symbolic deference to the flag. It is not disrespectful in virtually every liberal democracy not to treat the national flag like a religious shrine. The culture of uncritical loyalty to the state when its institutions only adequately serve part of the population is part of what makes the flag such a potent symbol for these protestors. That culture says that, no matter how inadequate the state is for you or your section of society, you must show unwavering obedience to institutions which offer you little in return or actively persecute you. I'm not sure how to put that except to say it feels pretty cooked, hey?

I'm just not sure how you think people should protest instead. By never criticising the government? By politely talking about their concerns in private? By politely emailing politicians either disinclined to care or who already are on-side and never engaging the public in the accessible and widely-viewed forum of sport? What is your alternative?

 

Trump for 2020 VoHiYo

 

I don't care about sports, especially football. I won't lose any sleep if they crash and burn

 

Is that all you have to say?

 

It confuses me as well. It obviously has to do with which ¨side¨ the people in question are on. It defies all logic.

 

Honestly, I usually avoid these kinds of gnarly arguments, but agreed.

Tho the main reason I'm posting on this particular topic at all is the fact that someone, rather many someones, finally showed that Trump's belligerence would backfire someday, and I'm frankly glad to see it; eventually, you reap what you sow. Both him and Hillary were awful choices and neither of them belong in office, but since he's in office, while a president can't be a pushover, they also can't be a complete ass...uh, I'm sorry, he somehow thinks that calling someone 'little rocket man' is the way to go about foreign relations? More like the way to screw us all over. I would've ragged on either one; I don't like or trust either one of them one bit, but he's making our country look like a joke in some ways. And I never understood how 'LGBT for Trump' ever made any sense. I don't like him because I feel like he's going to temporarily ruin this country for LGBT people.