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Is sexuality knowledge or belief?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by dudette, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. dudette

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    I would disagree because then according to Pepper, I would be considered asexual especially now since I am in asexual relationship, and all the past, present and future consequences lead me to asexual relationships; however, I still want to identify as bisexual because I am also happy in homo and hetero relationships like in the asexual one. The problem with this "consequences hypothesis", it does not take into account free will, sexual preferences and complexity of sexuality for example if you are bi, but heavily leaning towards homosexuality then according to the "consequences hypothesis" this person would be considered gay, even though he is bi (he is also attracted to opposite sex, but same sex is just preferred, but at any time he could just marry a woman, and still have a happy relationship) For example I met people like this online bi leaning towards homosexuality who married a woman just because he felt in love with this particular person. Also I have met people who are bi leaning towards heterosexuality who married a man just because he felt in love with this particular person. (I think that they should be allowed to do just because it brings them happiness even if according to the consequences hypothesis, these people are gays who are in hetero-marriage or straights who are in homo-marriage). Sorry, but you haven't convinced me that its a good way of representing someone sexuality :frowning2:

    But according to the LGBT community only you can label yourself, and we are not allowed label someone just because we think this label doesn't fit them. How would you feel if I tell you that you are not gay just sexually confused; thus, straight? (This person will take it the same way as you did if you tell him that he is not straight just sexually confused; thus, queer) :frowning2:
    I have noticed that sexual orientation is created by people who identify themselves as this sexual orientation, and not someone from outside.
     
    #21 dudette, Aug 26, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  2. Mabel

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    I always hated philosophy, and I am a chronic overthinker. I can tell you that I would want to be bi because then the situation I'm in would work perfectly. I'm not though, I'm gay and my situation is not working perfectly. All the thinking and reasoning I could ever do could not change that, I tried.

    Your weaving of philosophical theories and the minds that put them out there make anxious remembering the philosophy course i took in college. There were so many philosophers and they never gave me a satisfying explanation for anything. They just argued and argued while everyone else lived their lives. It frustrated me as a thinker because they took all the fun out of it for me and seemed to never get anywhere. All I could think of was that each one thought they had it all figured out but they didn't. So many great minds wouldn't exist if only one person had it all figured out. It's just not comforting to me or amusing to me in the least.

    I can appreciate your enthusiasm though and hope you continue to have fun with it. I really do! If you find a plausible way to have me not be gay then let me know. Please don't take offense to my thoughts. I found it funny how anxious reading this thread Made me and had to share! Carry on :slight_smile:)))
     
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  3. dudette

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    How come the thread made you anxious? Sorry I am just curious :slight_smile:
     
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  4. Mabel

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    The philosophy talk and my own neurotic ways...I like to think and it drives me nuts being told how to think....like I have to follow a certain path in the way I approach things. It's just me....
     
  5. dudette

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    but from my experience LGBT, asexuals and heterosexuals do tell you how to follow and how to identify, they would often claim that it is according to the books, but these books do not contain the full truth about one's sexuality :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
    The thing which I find amazing is that if I tell the full truth about my sexuality without putting label on it then asexuals will say that I am asexual, heterosexual would say that I am heterosexual, homosexuals would say that I am homosexual and bisexuals would say that I am bisexual.
    I did that couple of times, I find it very interesting because it would suggest that there is one sexuality, but people just find some features more important over other features in their sexuality before labeling themselves.
     
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  6. Mabel

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    I agree! I don't really read those books either. I sometimes call myself queer instead of gay, just because the way things happened for me. That confuses people, or gives them liscense to "fill in the blanks themselves". It is very true though, people like to put others in boxes that fit their own experience.

    That's why I'm most nervous to come out to the GLBTQ community. That's one of my biggest fears. My experience that has made me who I am and helped me understand who I am could get lost in the mix....

    Growing up I didn't have much freedom in anything, my thoughts no one could take though, they were mine. I hold on to that, therefore my anxiety in following formulas for thinking etc....all schools of thought have some thing to add, I just don't want to follow one construct.
     
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  7. dudette

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    This is the reason I like use all the 4 labels to label myself because each of them are spectrum with their own respect, and I fit in them according to homosexuals, heterosexuals, asexuals and bisexuals, but at the same time I use the Ancient Greek method of identifying your sexuality which is basically saying what you like, and what you dislike.
    For example, there are some (it is something common) straight guys who like to make out with other straight guys, and it is something normal in the heterosexual community, in some rare cases even having sex with other guys (I am not talking about in prison, but in normal environment), but it is still considered to be heterosexuality, and not bisexuality (and I agree with it for very good reasons which they gave me). Most of people in the LGBT community do not realize themselves that each of the sexual orientations is huge spectrum. People always try to make it easier by assuming that heterosexuality, homosexuality, asexuality and bisexuality are easy to understand, but they are not. This is the reason people try to make some kind of key features which are supposed to help you to identify, and identify other people around you :frowning2: , but they often turn out to be false, and not really being "key features" which are supposed to identify with this or that sexual orientation. I was told once that it is really difficult to capture sexual and romantic emotions in words, and I agree with that a lot :grin: I think that LGBT community is too focused on labels and identification than enjoying your own sexuality whatever it might be (asexuals also enjoy their own sexuality :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: since sexuality is supposed to be a sexual behavior which is supposed to bring you happiness)
     
    #27 dudette, Aug 26, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  8. Hushhh

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    This topic is very interesting, made me dizzy though. :'D

    I haven't read any books on philosophy other than the "philosopher's stone" I suck at philosophy101 too. But there is one thing that I could recall though, it's the "existence" of fallacy. (See google) :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    As normal deep people we tend to acquire information as we go through life, and then we apply it to different kinds of situation. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

    So to make conclusions based on books we've read, to our own lives and understanding is a fallacy. Sure we could use comparisons, hyperboles, similes, metaphors and other figurative language but they still are fallacies.

    theories vs laws.

    Even laws could be disproved too.
    K gotta drink analgesic for my headache. :grin:

    I love deep people. <3 :slight_smile:
     
  9. Mr B

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    Sorry for joining so late into this discussion, but I think I know where you are coming from. The problem here is the Cartesian definition of knowledge, which is very narrow and means only stuff that can be arrived at by logical deduction. In this sense, not even the fact that we exist can be 'known' and can only be arbitrarily posited i.e. believed. Modern philosophy is way past beyond that discussion and a lot more open to subjective, lived and felt experience, 'the phenomenon' as ultimately, that's the only thing we have to ground ourselves on. Therefore, in the end, that's what should matter most, instead of some abstract empty formal logic. I hope this is of any help. Cheers!



    or
     
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  10. greatwhale

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    Descartes....the ultimate cutter-up of things, where everything outside one's own skin is dead; Descartes the declarer of a division between subjects and objects. Phooey!

    Quick question: who is the one doing all this knowing? Is there an "I" that knows that it knows? Or is it that I am the phenomenon of knowing? What if there is no separate "I" that knows? What if reality is what happens when subject and object both collapse into a self-referential, reductio-ad-absurdum puff of smoke!

    (the questions above will no doubt be worth a few more interesting retorts!)
     
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  11. Mabel

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    I loved this description of Descartes! So satisfying to read!
     
  12. Mr B

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    The other day I was reading a book on yoga and the author was saying something very similar, it was about some of those philosophical dualities, mind-matter, I think. There's been that endless philosophical discussion about what takes precedence and his take was that they were one and the same thing, but viewed through two different standpoinds: inside and out. Through normal empirical observation of nature he could see the outside while through meditation he could see the inner side of it. It has some interesting parallels with your questions.