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I seem to have “classical" same-sex attraction reasons. Can therapy change my sexuality?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by PeterHuman, Aug 5, 2017.

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  1. PeterHuman

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    Quoting one article:

    It's exactly how I have felt since early childhood for many reasons:

    - my father, although in general good and helpful person, had serious alcoholism, thus my mother had to become "the leader of the family". This caused my dissatisfaction of my father and I often imagined that I would want to have a different father - big, strong, smart, caring. Sometimes I myself imagined that I would want myself to become this man. These fantasies were emotionally somewhat painful, but they also caused some other physical feelings which during later years turned into erection. Also, every time my mother was angry at my father when he came home drunk, I was on my mother's side and identified with her feelings.

    - I am legally blind since birth. I can read and walk around, and even ride a bicycle, but I can't have a driver's licence. Still, I managed to study programming, get master's degree and job as a software engineer

    - I have somewhat weak and undeveloped body, only 173cm and 54kg; and my father is even smaller than me, but at least he has strong muscles - I can't get that, I tried and just got hiatal hernia instead.

    - my parents were often at work and I was raised up by my two grandmothers. I rarely saw other males. Only form age 7 I started to play with other kids, but I preferred girls because they seemed more "familiar" and less aggressive (boys often bullied me because of my health)

    I'm 37 now and I have never really had sex because any sexual relations just don't feel good to me - they immediately cause associations with my deep dissatisfaction of my own body and craving to be somebody else, to be a "real man", whatever it means.

    My attractions are specifically to men who are much older than me and look smart and caring. But even then I do not think about sex with them, I just crave to receive emotional and physical love and recognition, and in my craziest fantasies I even imagine exchanging bodies with them to become "a real man". Only these fantasies cause sexual reactions, wet dreams etc.

    I have never really felt sexual attraction to someone's body "as such" (so, mostly asexual, I guess). Also, my homosexual attraction is only narrowed to those kind of men I described; any other person just causes repulsion when trying to think of sex with him/her.

    So, could it be that my sexuality issues are indeed caused only by my health and childhood and that therapy might change them? Are there any success stories about people like me, who could become heterosexual?
     
    #1 PeterHuman, Aug 5, 2017
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  2. Tomás1

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    Peterhuman,
    Correct me if I'm mistaken …but I think your quote on "defensive detachment" is from Reparative Therapy, possibly by Joseph Nicolosi, one its main popularizers. The theory is the reason a person is gay is due to a weak relationships w their same gender parent, thus they seek out love & attachment from the same gender. Reparative Therapy is widely discredited, & there are laws against it in several states in the US.

    Even the phrase "same sex attraction" is from RT lingo.

    I did RT for 6 months & it obviously doesn't work, otheris I wouldn't be here on EC! This is the main reason RT is widely discredited - it doesn't work, in stopping gay sentiments.

    What u describe as attraction to older, smart & caring men, is sexual attraction, in my view, even tho u say u have no attraction to someone's body. I definitely sense an absence of love for yourself - an essential ingredient of good self esteem. Regardless of the reasons, loving yourself is the place to start. There are many examples of people born w disabilities, who have overcome their greatest disability, of not loving themselves. Good luck to u!
     
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  3. PeterHuman

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    Yes, I have heard that it is a controversial topic and I definitely agree that all these factors do not relate to every homosexual or transgender person. There are many homosexuals who have had a pretty "normal" childhood and no any health issues. It seems obvious that psychotherapy would not change sexuality of a person who does not have any issues to treat.

    But in my case my childhood seems really close match to almost every factor on that "Reparative Therapy" list.

    Also, I have no idea how normal sexual attraction feel like. What are the usual motivations, emotions and reactions for a healthy person, no matter hetero or homo sexual? I have heard people using word "sexy" to describe someone, but I have no idea how, why and what is considered sexy. For me "sexy" means just that kind of personality of male who causes sexual reactions in me just because I crave to be in his protection and to become like him. I mean - I can look at a person's naked photo and feel nothing. But if the same person dresses and behaves like an old professor, I suddenly feel attraction and get sexual reaction. I suspect that for most hetero and homo sexual people it is completely different because I have heard how they talk about sexy body, muscles, genitals etc.

    So, this is confusing and that is why I highly suspect that in my case the problem is in the motivations and emotions, but I'm not sure what would happen if that would not be the case. If I would be treated of my inferiority complex and if I could accept my body as "masculine enough", would I then become fully homosexual or heterosexual or even asexual... not sure. I just hoped to find someone with similar experience and what treatment, if any, have they tried and how it affected their sexuality.
     
  4. Chiroptera

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    Hello,

    Short answer: No, therapy can't change your sexuality, simply because there is nothing to fix or to "repair".

    Being LGBT is completely normal, just like being straight. These therapists try to make you hide your true feelings and force yourself to like something you don't, and to reject something you like. Obviously, that doesn't work, because the feeling will still be there (even if you manage to hide it). These "therapies" have no scientific proof, and they can really, really hurt you, mentally. Again, it is stupid and harmful when you are trying to "fix" something that doesn't need "fixing".

    We still don't know scientifically what causes a person to become straight, gay, bisexual or any other orientation. But we have pretty strong evidence that it can't be changed. Therefore, your orientation being X hasn't changed/hasn't been caused because of the problems you faced. You are who you are, and no one can change that, regardless if you were born in a difficult environment or in a perfect environment.

    If you are attracted to a certain type of men, that doesn't mean you are "looking for your lost masculinity", or something like that. Different people like different people, and you happen to like X. That's ok.

    In resume, you are completely normal. Being LGBT is completely normal. Reparative therapy tries to convice you that you are broken and you need "fixing", but they have no scientific basis to what they are doing, and they can hurt you. Please, don't fall in that trap.

    However, it seems that you may have some questions and issues that a real therapist (a psychologist, properly recognized and registered) could help you to deal with. You said you may have some questions about emotions and motivations, and it could be helpful to try something like cognitive behavioral therapy (again, please look for a registered and recognized therapist. Charlatans can hurt you). Have you considered trying that?
     
    #4 Chiroptera, Aug 5, 2017
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  5. PeterHuman

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    Yes, I have considered to leave my sexuality alone for some time and instead focus on the real issues - inferiority complex, egocentrism. I have been looking for a good therapist, which is not that easy task considering that I live in a small town and I have no car - I would have to plan a day free of work for regular visits to the capital city, and it would be a 2 hour trip. Now I'm looking for online options through Skype calls etc.

    I have also tried to communicate with some men I find sexually attractive. But the more time I spend with them, the less I felt any sexual desire. I started noticing their weaknesses and understood that they, too, in some way are not "the big strong perfect men" I imagined. So, it seems that I'm sexually attracted to my fantasies and not real men. Maybe I just haven't met one yet, but considering my current age (37), what are my chances to meet a men with whom we both would feel good despite me being "not quite homosexual"? That's why I started label myself as homo-romantic-asexual, just to make it clear for other people that they should not expect good sex from me because I need just cuddling to have enough "sexual action" for me.

    Also, I have met some girls who were physically smaller, but nice and good conversation partners, and they made me feel more "manly", and I liked that. I wished so badly I would have sexual attraction for them but it did not work that way. However, I could feel some sexual reactions if I imagined how I might look from their perspective. But again these reactions were caused by my self-reflection through the eyes of those girls and not real straight sexual desire for them.

    A month ago I met an interesting woman online, and somehow soon our conversation got really deep. We have so much in common, we are both introverts, both come from Catholic families but at the same time are pretty open minded, we are both interested in psychology because we had some childhood traumas. She seemed to accept that I have sexual issues. I didn't exactly say that I'm homosexual, but I told I am not capable of physical intimacy with women. We then met in real life once. It was hard for me. I really liked her, I felt that we are more than just close friends because we have told each other things that we haven't shared with anybody else. She even mentioned that she herself thought about adopting a child and that might be also an option for me. It was told in a way as if she had already imagined us as a couple. But for me, in addition to "sexual incompatibility", additional problem is that she is physically just a tiny bit bigger than me, and also slightly more active and ambitious. With her I feel like being with my mother again, I feel weaker and not worthy for this nice lady. So, I guess, my psychological issues will be sabotaging any relationships I try - sexual or asexual. Which means that I have solve them first and only then look how it would affect my sexuality, if it will affect at all.
     
    #5 PeterHuman, Aug 5, 2017
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  6. Twist

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    Sexuality isn't something you "fix". It is what it is. Therapy can help a lot of things, but that's not one of them. I think the quotes I've added above cover what, in my opinion, you should be focusing on.

    And when looking at others (whether they are men, women, or otherwise) keep in mind that NO ONE is perfect. Everyone has vulnerabilities. What you should be looking for isn't the "perfect" man.... but the man that's a perfect fit for you.
     
  7. PatrickUK

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    Therapy cannot change your sexuality and you should be very wary of working with any therapist who claims that such a thing is possible. It absolutely is not possible and some of the techniques that are employed in the process of reparative therapy are extremely dangerous. Therapy should be used to help people with mental health issues; homosexuality is not a mental health issue.
     
  8. Chip

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    It isn't controversial. It's bullshit. And the handful of credible authors who wrote on this topic have all come back and said that their articles were wrong.

    Those things don't cause same-sex attraction. This is *extremely* well documented in all the credible research. The only people arguing that this disproven and discredited stuff is still valid are the ignorant Christian crazies who are ignoring all of the credible research done before and since.

    There are clearly a bunch of shame issues getting in the way of believing you're worthy of love and belonging. Those need to be addressed before you'll be able to have healthy relationships. But nothing you do in therapy will change your attraction to men; that's hardwired.
     
  9. spaceintime2032

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    Therapy in any form can’t change your sexuality its who you are and its normal to be gay. These people who offer therapy to change you are evil and desugsting individuals who use religion has guise when it's not even in the religious texts And they do it for profit. Don't even get involved with this therapy. They will damage you for been who you are meant to be gay and you should be proud you are gay.
     
  10. Cinnamon Bunny

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    I've done a lot of reading from a trauma perspective on sexuality. Like other have said, sexual orientation being determined by psychological factors such as attachment or trauma has never had evidence (even through promoted as fact) and has been proven false. The the best our our knowledge sexual orientation is based in biological factors. If your sexuality could be change, it won't be through therapy.

    There are however a lot of mental health issues that can effect your pleasure or interest in sex, to me it sounds like that is likely your situation. Things like depression, PTSD, disassociation, stress, self-esteem, anxiety, etc can all impact your interest in sex. Even our physical health, how healthy our relationships are, social influences, or simply a bad mood can effect our interest in sex. Our orientation remains the same, but psychological factors can block or mask our orientation.

    I personally went through different stages thinking I was straight, then bi, then asexual, then finally bi again. It wasn't until I worked out my issues that I was able to connect to and embrace that part of myself. I think I still have more to work through, but now I actually want sex with real people.
     
  11. Quantumreality

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    Hey PeterHuman,

    In this respect, I would say that you seem more to be yearning for a male role model or a mentor, rather than a romantic and sexual partner. That certainly wouldn't be at all strange given how you describe your upbringing.

    I would also note that an individual's masculinity or femininity does not have any relationship to their actual sexual orientation.

    Just a couple of thoughts.
     
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  12. PeterHuman

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    Quantumreality, yes, you are so right - that explains, why I have attraction only to "teacher-kind" of men.

    Also, I have noticed that the attraction is much stronger to the men I know as being strictly straight. Unfortunately, the closest words I can find would again match those of some "reparative therapies" - it's like I'm attracted by the fact that these men know or have some "secret" which makes them capable of being heterosexual. When thinking about it, it seems irrational, but this yearning itself comes from some deeper subconscious level where many emotions and desires are completely irrational.

    I"m confused by the fact that this yearning causes sexual reactions. On the other hand, I have also noticed that I have similar reactions when I get scared to death. Luckily, I haven't been in such situations in real life, but in my dreams I sometimes see myself falling off a cliff and then I know that that's it, that's the end, nothing can be fixed, I'm totally screwed ... and suddenly this causes the familiar adrenaline rush and I have ejaculation. This is really weird, I haven't met anybody else with such reactions. On the other hand, I haven't also heard anyone explaining in-dept how real homosexual attractions feel like, that's why I cannot compare.

    So, all of these factors make me confused - maybe I'm not homosexual at all, in which case there might be a chance that some kind of therapy might help me to actually become heterosexual or at least help me accept as I am, even if it means to accept this weird not-quite--homosexuality :grin:
     
    #12 PeterHuman, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  13. beenthrdonetht

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    As a scientist, that quote about defensive detachment sounds like, pardon my language, bullshit. It does not sound scientific at all. It's complete nonsense. Anybody talking like that would (rightly) get laughed out of the Psychology department at any university in the world.

    I know this does not address you -- you are an "experiment of one" like all the rest of us. Becoming heterosexual is unlikely. But you may be already heterosexual -- that is, not entirely gay. That comes down to your life story, which is not fully told yet.
     
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  14. Tomás1

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    PeterHuman:
    There are some grains of truth in Reparative Therapy - such as the observation that certain types of men are more likely to be gay - like those w artistic & theatrical talents, & sensitive types. They're not the only ones who've observed that. Their falsity however is in their conclusion - that being gay is undesirable, & u can change (or repair) your sexuality thru their therapy & become straight. It just doesn't work … mainly because our sexual nature is body & heart oriented, not subject to head shrinking.

    Reading your posts, my sense is that you're a bit obcessed by sex. That's not unusual, being men, w this thing hanging between our legs, fueled by testosterone. My own experience w sexual energy is that it's better left in the background, than foreground. It's better just to go w people I like being with, rather than always trying to get my rocks off. Sex will happen, when I relax, & move to people I feel comfortable with.

    I'd try to get closer to the woman u met online - i think she's the only person you've expressed interest in. She may not be perfect, few of us are, maybe she's a bit taller, but it sounds like u had a good connection. Relationships that work almost always contain compromises.

    Your dream is not meant to be taken literally, yet I'm sure there is meaning in it. I agree that your gay side seems to be looking for a mentor - it's no wonder given your background. But there's no "secret" that will make u straight. Only u can look into your own identity & make sense of it.
     
  15. findingjoy

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    @PeterHuman
    This post will probably be deleted by a moderator, but I am going to disagree with most of the posters here. I write this as someone who tried to 'fix' my gay thoughts to someone who accepted them, to someone who now loves being gay.
    • even if there were clear evidence that these therapies worked, I doubt 99% of the people here would accept it. You're better off looking for evidence somewhere else. This is like a forum for alcoholics and you're asking if you can go back to drinking moderation. My take? It's very hard to do but possible! :slight_smile:
    • there are individual testimonies of people who have claimed success - again which most of the posters here would brush off - which I think is pretty arrogant and disrespectful.
    • There have been high profile cases ( Like Cynthia Nixon) who said they chose their orientation. They were met with militant protests from activist groups. Why not respect what they have said about themselves?
    • sexual behavior can come from a lot of things. Fetishes can develop in formative years. Even these are very hard to undo. I don't think we know everything yet. I have seen too many absolute 'the science is settled' claims in my lifetime to believe the book is closed.
    • While I generally agree about sexuality not changeable - I think sexual behavior and sexuality can become confused.

    It is possible to subconsciously sexualize that yearning?

    pressure groups and often outright threats of violence had nothing to do with it?

    I think this is best advice here. Also PeterHuman there might be things more important to you than sex. Someone who becomes a monk decides that sex is not at the forefront of his thoughts. I am not recommending that you become a monk :slight_smile: but start with what you want out of life :slight_smile:.
     
    #15 findingjoy, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  16. Chip

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    First, there are a very, very small portion of people who have had alcohol addiction issues who are able to go back to moderate drinking. Less than 1% probably, but they do exist, and the credible researchers in the field of addiction acknowledge this.

    However, the issue of whether reparative therapy works isn't remotely controversial. It's settled science and has been for years. The APA published on the issue, looking at just about every study done on it over the past six decades. Their take was pretty clear: It doesn't work, it's unethical to do, and it is actionable as an ethical violation by many (by now, probably most) state licensing boards.

    One of the most dramatic testimonies was from the founder of Exodus, which was the largest ex-gay program in the country. For years he swore he'd been "converted" and was now straight. Subsequently, like just about everyone else with any common sense, he realized it was bullshit, that he was still gay, and he offered a deep and sincere apology to the community for misleading everyone for decades, and dissolved the organization. That's pretty profound.

    I can say I'm a unicorn. It doesn't make it so. There are a lot of messed up people out there. Given a choice between a random anecdotal story, and a comprehensive review of six decades of research, over hundreds of studies, by the largest psychiatric/psychological association in the country, and the concurrence of every major psychology, sexology, counseling and social work organization... I'll take the scientific facts, thank you, rather than crap you pulled out of your ass.

    And a whole lot has been written about this by researchers who have spent decades studying it and, indeed, the issue is nuanced. Once you've read a majority of the work in the field, rather than pulling stuff out of your ass and offering unsupported opinions, or opinions supported by discredited research, then there's something to talk about that. Until then... what you are offering up isn't an opinion, it's direct denial of the factual data. So if you want to remain ignorant... so be it.

    On this, I am in complete agreement.

    This gets into nuance that is too complex to discuss coherently in a forum post. It's safe to say that there are factors that influence sexual attraction which is different from orientation and identity.


    I don't think so. In several cases the research itself was completely mischaracterized and quoted out of context by the right wing crazies. In other cases, the research was impossibly flawed (poor sampling, bad methodology, biased analysis, etc) and the researchers eventually acknowledged this. It is notable that I don't think any of the research claiming that reparative therapy actually worked survived any sort of rigorous peer review.
     
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  17. findingjoy

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    Yes it's very very hard but possible.

    Science can be politicized. That's why it's being used as a political tool now. Any scientist as you have noted who has published something in opposition to 'settled' science quickly rescinds. You think this has nothing to do with political and activist pressure. People have lost their jobs for supporting anti-gay marriage initiatives, imagine what happens to a scientist.

    but there are plenty of others who haven't rescinded. do you discount their personal testimonies ? Do you respect their testimonies.

    To deny that this hasn't happened and to characterized anyone who opposes you view as such is emphasizes my point.

    I have noted, I have accepted that I am gay, and I love my sexuality. But I don't label anyone who doesn't almost allows groups to dehumanize them and terrorize them. I don't like the bullying and militant behavior.

    hmm isn't that what critics say about people who say they are what gender they feel?
     
  18. Chip

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    Findingjoy, all I can really say in response to your ignorance is that there are also a not-insignificant number of people who honestly believe, in 2017, that the earth is flat, or that Martians are living on the earth with us, or that there are lizard people who secretly control everything in the world.

    Your statements about reparative therapy are every bit as credible as those beliefs, and every bit as contradicted by the facts. You're welcome to continue to cling to your ignorance, but doing so does not change the facts.
     
  19. PatrickUK

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    Well, I am pleased (genuinely pleased) that you survived the process and finally arrived at a place of acceptance and joy in your sexuality, but what about those people who have been through the process and haven't survived? What about those people who suffered mental torment as they were reduced hollow shells during the process of reparative therapy? What about those people who were so overwhelmed with shame and despair during the process of 'fixing' that they killed themselves? This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. It happened, for sure.

    It's great that you are here to tell your story, but it's not great that gentle men and women are now dead because reparative therapy totally fucked them up. I can't find words that adequately describe how I feel about that.

    Before we offer any endorsement, even the most modest endorsement of reparative therapy, let us pause to consider exactly what it is. It's an incredibly pernicious process that is designed to change something that requires no change at all and there's a good reason why it's outlawed in many countries around the world.
     
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  20. findingjoy

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    hi Patrick, I wasn't forced and didn't go though any kind of therapy- I just sought answers on my own.
    I saw personal testimonials that seemed sincere, from porn and sex addicts with confused identity or who thought they were gay and reset to what they thought was their true selves. There are people who have gay feelings who don't want them - I think they have the right to explore how to get rid of them - and outlawing that seems outrageous. I also have to admit I am uneasy with giving pre-teen children hormone blocking and other drugs because they think they might be a different gender.

    There are also plenty of sincere testimonials from people who have had profound spiritual experiences and experienced a change in their sexual desires, including their orientation. If believing them is 'ignorant' as your fellow 'moderator'(?!) calls me, then I am happy to be so. Good for them if that's what they wanted.

    I also think what we call 'gay' behavior can have many causes - for me I thought I had a sexual fetish but it turned out through this board, that I had genuine romantic feelings for other men, something I repressed for years. It was very hard to accept at first, but that changed everything for me.

    Again, coming out was the best thing I have done for myself, and since then my sexual desires for women have all but gone away (so something changed? because before I accepted myself I had some sexual arousal to women), and I love being gay.

    Lastly thank you for your courteous response.
     
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