LGBT News Trump stops Trans persons serving in the military

Yup. Smh

 

I was just about to make this thread. Here's an article from the Washington post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-troops-medical-care/?utm_term=.f4dcba681821
The medical care for transgender people is way less than what the military spends on viagra every year.

 

Well, his weekly trips to Mar-A-Lago cause an excessive strain on my budget. He can give the American people back some of that money for surgeries if he's going to waste taxpayers money by golfing and tweeting instead of doing his job.

http://www.inquisitr.com/4391873/tr...-military-by-skipping-one-trip-to-mar-a-lago/

 

At this point, I'm wondering why anyone would put their life on the line for a country which feels their only place is under it's boot.

 

I'm of two minds about this, as I don't have enough information to solidly support either side.

On one hand, I think anyone who wishes to serve, and can pass all the physical and mental tests should be allowed to serve.

On the other hand; trans people have a higher rate of suicide attempts... like 40% or so. So I am concerned about them being away from a solid network of people who can help them with their transition and mental health. As I am sure that being shelled or shot at does not help with the mental and emotional things trans people are dealing with.

It is a very complex question, which requires a lot of complex thought. As someone else mentioned, there are trans people in the military. So it is not like they are an unknown quantity, but at the same time the extra attention they would get to figure out an answer would skew the result.

 

Yes, and the irony there is the attitudes that lead to policies like this one (and used to justify it) are part of the reason why the suicide attempt rate is as high as it is. A good chunk of the reasons described below also apply to those in the LGB part of the community as well.

http://www.sebastianmitchellbarr.co...sgender-people-more-likely-to-attempt-suicide

I offer up a question about how this policy does anything to improve those numbers. Or how being shelled or shot at makes it worse, rather than perhaps focusing your attention on what's right in front of you? Ironically for me, distractions have been quite good about keeping my mind from going to dark places.

 

How would it fly if someone justified a ban on gay or bi men in the military by saying, "Well, they suffer from depression, substance abuse, and diseases like HIV"?

 

I totally disagree with this ruling, besides one thing. I do not think the government should pay for the surgery's witch are purely cosmetic and unnecessary.

But hey, if the draft ever comes back, just say your trans

 

Yes because the US wouldn't exist anymore, she would have escalated tensions between Russia and the US with the No Fly Zone over Syria and would eventually lead us to war. We would be dead at her hands. I do not like trump, but he is better than the alternative.

 

As much as this is a heavy topic, regardless of whether you like it or not, it does kinda screw over people like me. Like, my (if everything else fails) backup plan is joining the Navy and trying to become a helicopter pilot on an aircraft carrier. So, if this does get put in place, other trans people with similar ideas won't be able to. And I'm sure lots of arguments can be made about this, but what I'm concerned about is, I just lost what I thought was a viable career path. If I couldn't find happiness or "make it" in the film industry or in owning my own production company, or working in law enforcement, I would've joined the Navy. If I couldn't do film, if I couldn't be a cop (hwy patrol, park ranger, etc), then I would join the military. And I guess that can't happen now. So much for wanting to fly helicopters and working on an aircraft carrier.

 

Without even reading articles n stuff just twitter headlines, I think the amount of support i saw all over my twitter feed is so heartwarming. I consider myself bigender so when I heard about i kinda did a double take.

Even Walmart where i work has a nondescrimination policy for employment in regards to sexual orientation and gender identity. I found out about it like a month ago.

 

Ok.. So I will be a dissenting vote on this, and this is coming from someone who did the long haul... 20 years in the Navy (which is the Least military branch of the military when it comes right down to it not counting the Coast Guard who actually fall under the DOT... not the DOD).

While I don't agree with all Trumps call on Trans people serving I do agree in part. If you are Trans and are either Going through Transition or are Planning to then you really don't need to be in the Military at this time unless you have fully transitioned and even then it is questionable at this point in time.

I was in when Clinton came into office and he ran on claiming to get rid of "Don't Ask ... Don't Tell" and allowing the Gay/Lesbian community to Openly Serve, but he didn't do it and I was very thankful for that and here's why-

The Military isn't like any other Job.. When deployed both the Safety of this Nation, Your Unit and the Mission you are tasked with have to be THE priority and everything else comes second, and you simply can't allow anything that will disrupt or interfere with that.. Period. Now I understand and I am all for Trans rights, and they will come albeit more slowly than many would like, no different than Gay/Lesbian rights, or Minority rights or Women's rights have in the past.

The fact is if the issue is causing a bunch of strife and turmoil in the Civilian world then the Military is the LAST place you need to be pushing the issue because it puts both Lives and the Protection of both our Nation and it's Allies at risk perhaps. Now when we see our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines Stateside it's easy to think "Why Not?" because it appears their lifestyle isn't that different from anyone elses, but when you are deployed and it counts the most it is not and unless you have been there then there is no way you can understand...

Think about it... for those of us who are Civilians, we go to work then we go home.. and at work we are expected to keep our political / religious / sexual views, beliefs and adventures to ourselves because it interferes with getting the job done and if you've ever been in a workplace where people were dating or pushing their views or lifestyle it Sucks and detracts from the Job. The difference is we all go home at the end of the day and can do and be whatever we want and it's nobody else's business..

When you are deployed on a Ship, or In the Field you don't have that Luxury.. it's 24 hours a day 7 days a week and any down time you have are really still "at work" and all the things that detract in the normal work place don't just hurt the bottom line (as in it's a money issue), they can and will get people killed if it causes anyone to not have their body, mind and spirit 100% in the game, and it's not just the Trans person you have to worry about it affecting... It's everyone else in the unit too.

So again am I for Trans people serving in the military.. Yes. But only after we as a Nation or Society have Accepted and become inclusive of Trans people as a whole.. Because the Military should reflect our society as it is... Not be the Vehicle for Social Change.

 

I see your point. My mom's homophobic and transphobic and has been going on and on about how unfair it would be to make the military pay for that when there's injured vets that could better use the money. But that's another good point. Safety's gotta be priority and you're right, maybe we should ban LGBT in the military if at this point in time its more of a safety risk than anything else. Plus like my mom's been saying, its not the only restriction for the military, there are a bunch more. You've gotta be in tip top form essentially w/ no mental or health issues from what i have heard. She's got a friend whose been in the military apparently.

 

You're right... Where I am employed they do have policies to allow for the LBGT community including being able to have "Domestic Partners" put on you're health insurance etc. But the truth is that If I were to "Come Out" at work it would be disastrous and I am certain that when an opportunity came I would no longer be with the company and most certainly would never be able to advance, especially since I don't fall under the L/G portion of the LGBT community which is seeing at least some acceptance. And we do have one person who everyone knows is a homosexual at work but it falls under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" unspoken rule, and everyone is ok with that for the most part.

And to be honest even when I was in the Military under don't ask don't tell we had those who everyone knew were Homosexuals, but so long as they kept their private life to their self, especially when deployed most folks didn't really care and that was back in the 80's. So by now maybe their openly serving is no longer an issue... Different deal but when I was in they first started putting women on combat ships and I dreaded it, largely because of the fact that the average age of someone in the military is about 20 years old, and at the time if a female claimed "sexual harassment" it was a guilty until proven innocent situation and my fears were that the younger sailor's would date then split up and as a supervisor I would have to deal with this mess while still having to run a shop and meet the mission (this was at the same time that Clinton said he was going to get rid of Don't ask Don't Tell Too!).. Thankfully we had a very good Captain who's policy and handling of things made sure that any situations were dealt with in a way to keep good order and discipline without any "witch hunts"... basically anyone who was caught fraternizing on his ship was dealt with severely and with no leniency period... Which was the only way that it could work. Now by the same token I still didn't agree with it because there were other issues where the Women on board did not have to perform to the same level as the men, and that did negatively impact readiness, and to me much of that was still a society and social issue because until everyone treated the same with the same expectations in society you can't expect the people in the military to do anything but reflect that.

 

The more I've seen about this the more clear it was trump trying to score points with his supporters who hate LGBT people, perhaps distract from the Russia collusion, and nothing more. There was no study, no facts, nothing to support it. As pointed out, more is spent on viagra for military people than the healthcare for trans people would cost. Money as the reason is a lie like everything those against us use to turn more people against us to get their way. Don't be fooled, they are pissed we can get married and are doing all they can to hurt us and repeal our equality. They are petty, cold, hateful people who pretend to be christian.

Trans people were already serving openly for the past year. The Pentagon had been working on the full inclusion details. This was a typical, uninformed, cruel, hasty tweet by trump with no consideration of the consequences.

 

I snipped the content of your argument for space, but the thing is, I've never really bought this sort of argument. And it isn't a new one, as it has been applied to numerous groups, including gays and lesbians, black people, and women. The latter being one you also bring up.

So when I see the argument issued repeatedly, but the actual disruption that occurs is the group being integrated being the target of harassment and worse, I don't find myself having much sympathy for the argument. It tends to smack of someone saying "Look, these people are assholes, so stay away from the assholes. We need those assholes, and they are more important to us than you in this situation."

It's insulting to hear that. Especially when "this situation" starts covering a large swath of your life options, as it isn't just one situation, but a number of them from many voices.

 

Canada's response to Mr. Trump's announcement:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-transgender-military-trump-ban-1.4222787

 

Interesting quotes from the article;

If the article's correct, and this is always a bit suspect when a variety unnamed sources attribute a presidential decision to their own spheres of influence, it seems Trump either gave in far too much (so much for being the dealmaker), never gave a fuck (so much for the 'first Republican nominee to include LGBT rights') or had no idea how to solve the problem through any other means that didn't break his campaign pledges to uphold LGBT rights. All of those bode ill.

On financing, I just find it so hard to believe that's a legitimate reason. That the US Treasury shells out enormous sums of money to meet personnel's every medical need, including self-induced, unnecessary or expensive ones but now refuses to provide aid to a very small section of those personnel doesn't make much sense. And even then, the ban so obviously goes beyond that financial scope by casting a very wide net and rejecting all transgender people.

Nor does the rhetoric that senior levels of the armed don't believe in transgender people serving in the armed forces work, because that is blatantly not about money and is a far more cultural one, though one not backed (and explicitly denounced) by the British Defence Secretary and members of the Canadian armed forces and against heavily reviewed, gender-inclusive Australian and New Zealand defence policies which have been in place for some time to no detriment to the institutional integrity of the armed forces.

 

You don't have to buy it. And your post validates my argument in the first place... The point is that it does make disruption and it doesn't matter who initiates it or what the causes are right or wrong. I'm all for inclusive social change. But the change needs to fully take place on the home front and not in some SJW fashion pushed on the troops when Society itself hasn't even come close to assimilating anything other than a Binary Gender model. So try looking at all of the things that will Disqualify someone from serving in the military... and while all of those reasons may not be "fair" because of the hand someone's been dealt in life they are all there because the mission of the military and what it entails comes before the individual and it has to. Once society gets things ironed out to where it's no longer an issue in the general population then it won't be an issue for serving in the military either, but the last place social change needs to be forced is in the military.

 

Apparently theres no policy change and this was just tweeted out or something? What the fuck is going on....