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I've got it sooooo bad! Make it stop!

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by RJay, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. RJay

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    HAHAHAHA! Indeed! Love it...

    And yes, I have been sooooooo guarded my whole life. This is the first relationship I've had where I've really been open to giving and receiving everything. I never felt so comfortable showing my care and concern. I would previously actually avoid showing care and concern to my friends out of fear... fear of seeming overly concerned or attached or something. I was always afraid that I would be viewed as "clingy" or needy or something. But now that I know what's going on with me, I don't give a damn how my actions appear. If she thinks I'm getting super attached or overly concerned about her, fine! I really don't care if she figures out how far gone I am. It's probably better that she know!

    I love her so much. I think we'd be so good for each other. I mean, we already ARE so good for each other. I just want it to last forever. I'm such a hopeless romantic! After everything I went through and everything I've seen, am I really at this point and believing in fairy tales?! OMG!
     
  2. RJay

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    Jesus. This morning was another soulful conversation on her front steps. She told me she was feeling depressed and sad and started to cry. I actually asked if I could give her a hug and she said yes, and I held her for way too long. Like waaaaaay too long. But she kept talking, and I think I really helped, and after we said goodbye she texted me almost immediately to tell me that the weather was supposed to be beautiful Sunday morning for a long walk in the park with the dogs. If I wanted to do that. Are you kidding?
     
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  3. TravelFever

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    If this woman isn't already in love with you I will be at loss about the world.... Or probably I have no idea how straight women are treating a good friend. But my straight friends never want to spend that much time with me. ;-)
    I hope it works out, I am in line with all the other fans of you story and cross my fingers for you!
     
  4. RJay

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    She had another altercation with her ex this afternoon and asked me if she could see me. There was more crying and hugging. Jeeze.

    Then we picked up the kids, and on the way home, we ran into a guy she was "dating" for a few months last year. She introduced me, and I was very cold to the guy, and when we walked away she was so obviously flustered. She told me, "ugh, he's really cute." And I said, "if you say so." She laughed her head off and said, "right! Not your type!" And I'm thinking, "what? Did she forget I'm gay?" What is happening here? Maybe she really doesn't get what's going on with me!
     
    #244 RJay, Jul 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  5. zumbaqueen

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    I'm going with she's attracted to you and comfortable with you, but when she's around others (including her ex) she stops and thinks can I really feel this way about a woman. She's still coming to terms with her feeling for you. Of course I'm a hopeless romantic and you know I want you and V together.
     
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  6. TravelFever

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    :confounded:
    straight women.... we probably will never get them. She really might be oblivious?!?
    I totally understand that is frustrating. However it works out enjoy it while it lasts... you might get fed up with her being super touch-feely but always talking about men. So either one day you tell her about your feelings or wait until they start to fade. From my experience that can take a while and needs distance. :unamused:
     
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  7. idsm

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    I really hate to be the pessimistic one, but could it be that what we all perceive as interest on her part is just her need for affection? I don't mean that she does it on purpose to lead you on, but she doesn't seem to be in a good place mentally. Like, she had a bad divorce, she seems to put herself down a lot and blame herself about everything (crying for going to a party, being afraid that you were about to yell at her for the dog when you met, etc). Not that she doesn't like you as a person, but perhaps she needs the acceptance, attentiveness and sense of self worth that you give her, rather than romance? I don't know, it's just a thought. She confuses me just as much as she confuses you. I keep changing my mind about her. :S

    Being very cold to her ex('s) might not be a good idea, either. Perhaps "politely distant" would be a more sensible approach?
     
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  8. Really

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    I was wondering something similar to idsm.

    Do you just "get" her so well, that she can't help but want to confide in you and be around you?

    Do you know if she knows any other lesbians? Maybe you're the only one she knows and she's decided lesbians are just the nicest people around and why wouldn't you make friends with one? They're great! (Thanks for being such a great representative, btw.)

    Perhaps in her mind, seeing as she's straight, she doesn't need to worry that you'll be interested in her. The only problem is that she has no frame of reference for how a lesbian might interpret her friendliness in any other way. For her, you just "get" eachother.
     
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  9. RJay

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    I wasn't cold so much as just, like, "Hey there." More like a 'whatever' attitude.

    Yeah, I just had a long talk with a queer woman friend of mine, and she thinks V is just really vulnerable and lonely and has latched onto me because of all the positive attention I give her. She thinks I'm in too deep and need to back away because this is a person who has boundary issues and may be using me though it could be completely unconsciously. UGH...

    I just can't picture being the one to put distance between us. My therapist said I shouldn't change anything with V (because she doesn't think I"m willing to anyway) but I *SHOULD* go out of my way to socialize with other friends and prioritize my piano playing so I'm not left with nothing if and when this thing starts to go bad.
     
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  10. Really

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    I wouldn't say you need to distance yourself so much as maybe readjust how you think about the situation. So... don't think of all her attention to you as any sort of signs that she likes you likes you but as the actions of someone who needs some support and you are kindly giving it to her.

    Just out of curiosity, have you ever asked her for help with anything? Watching your kid or dog or...? I'm just wondering if she's reciprocated in any way.
     
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  11. RJay

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    Yeah, she did pick up my kid from camp once and has done little things for me, but nothing close to what I've done for her. I do think I've been a little too "available" and eager to take care of her needs. I really need to take care of myself, I think... My friend probably has a point about her just being very needy right now and not able to help accepting all my attention. Right now I think V is totally not falling for me or we wouldn't have had that awkwardness with the "cute" guy today. But as I've said all along, I really don't want this to become one of those friendships I totally fail at because I get all possessive. I mean V didn't ask for this, so I'd hate to fail her. I think this idea of focusing on other friends and my piano playing is a really good one if I can manage it.

    Of course, there was more texting a little bit ago, and she said she's really looking forward to our walk on Sunday morning. It's stuff like that throws me, but it's likely just a "deep friendship" thing on her part. Maybe she really is clueless enough to not realize what's going on with me! It seems hard to believe, but she could just be so wrapped up in her own drama that she hasn't really considered it. If so, I definitely need to pull myself together, because she is not going to help me out here -- unless I just get really serious with her one of these days and explain exactly how I'm feeling, and then we can both figure out how to deal with it. I suppose that is always an option. Some days I'm doing just fine, but today I've been super emotional. Lots of tears, but I only do it on my own *after* I help her with her tearful crisis.

    I mean, it's not like I'm not going through a lot too... just moved one week ago, living out of boxes, my son is leaving tomorrow for a one-week vacation with his dad. That will be the longest we've ever been apart, and I'm freaking. The divorce is getting finalized, but there was some last minute arguing over finances this morning which really pissed me off. And, by the way, hello, I just figured out that I'm *GAY*, and I haven't ever had a fulfilling relationship in my life, and the one I had with my ex was a disaster, and there was nothing going on between us for the last 6 years. So... yeah. I have needs. I've been keeping it together pretty well, I think, but today SUCKS.
     
    #251 RJay, Jul 7, 2017
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  12. Moonsparkle

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    I am wondering if randomly seeing the dude she used to date and her reactions to that interaction could actually be a good thing? Not that the whole thing was good in itself, but it IS a good thing if it allows you to keep all possible perspectives open re: what's going on with you and V. It also put you and V in a situation where you were with a third party, if only briefly. Which I think is kind of unique for both of you, since it's often just you two together (or with the kids, but they're not adults!) Sometimes you learn things about people when you add a person or two, or three to the usual mix. Not necessarily negative things, or positive, but it's just interesting to see how people are with others, and what kinds of feelings the interaction brings up in us.

    I would pay close attention to your reaction to this 'running into cute guy' thing--reactions tell us something. And your reaction may tell you if you are 'in too deep' here. Did it make you feel jealous? Sad? Angry? Okay either way? Unsteady? Unsure? Or any of the billion other emotions out there?

    One last question, did you ask V why she broke up with 'cute dude'? Or if she still had feelings for him?
    (Not that you want to know the answer--believe me I get that!) Or did she share anything about this without being prompted by you? I only ask because this is the sort of stuff 'regular' best friends talk about all the time.

    Hugs from all your EC friends (There used to be a group hug emoji on the old EC, but I can't find it now! But pretend it's in this blank space_______:slight_smile: )
     
  13. Really

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    It's totally understandable that you're emotional. You're dealing with a ton of stuff. I remember at one point, early on, I had these waves of weepiness which I couldn't explain and I had waaaay less going on than you do. It didn't matter what I was doing. Sitting around, staring into space, reading something complete unrelated, whatever. It would just come over me. It's gone now, has been for a while but I wonder if there's some point between accepting ourselves and getting on with our lives, however that manifests itself, when we are at our most fragile emotionally. Our brains are still just catching up with everything.

    I'd give yourself a break and your emotions a chance to rebound from this "hit". Go for a furious bike ride around Central Park or somewhere. Blow out the cobwebs. Pound out some weird modern piece on the piano. Take this week to do something nice for you and you alone. Maybe find a local lesbian meetup and see what the other lesbians are up to. ;}
     
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  14. RJay

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    Thanks, guys, so so so much for the perspective. This whole thing WOULD just happen to me. The timing has just been outrageous. I met her the WEEK I asked my ex for the divorce. Of COURSE I'd fall like a ton of bricks. Ay ay ay....

    Moonsparkle, the "cute" guy pissed me right off. I can't think about her with a guy. Just cannot. Really, it makes me so angry and jealous. NOT GOOD! He was so brawny and manly too. GROSS (to me). My head went straight to picturing him all over her, and I just wanted to kill somebody. It's bad. And nope, I haven't asked why they broke up, and she hasn't said. I really don't want to talk about him at all. This is how it's been for me with a few close friends in the past. They get to talking about their sex lives or romantic interests, and I just go ballistic and make up excuses to get out of the conversation! (How did I not know I was gay?!?!!?! How did THEY not know?!?!?!?!)

    She just texted me again about another thing with the ex husband. Mostly what is happening is that I'm backing her up in this whole divorce debacle, and giving her confidence in how she's handling it, and reassuring her that she's doing great and is a great mom, and letting her know that the ex is an asshole and totally in the wrong, etc., etc. She worries SO MUCH about her kids and is SO HURT by their dad. I'm just picking up the pieces daily. Because I really do feel terrible for her and want to help! But, it's getting super one-sided. And this whole being flustered by the cute guy and roping me into it shows me she really isn't considering my feelings in any of this. Here's a text I sent her tonight as an example of the kinds of things I'm saying to her all the time:
    "I wonder if he ever looks at you or thinks about you and feels like an idiot for losing you. He really should. But I guess these guys are too full of themselves to get it. Don't ever let him see you rattled. Your texts today were a really good step. His attempts at "outdoing" you are really pathetic. You are in another league entirely."
    And earlier today I texted her this:
    "Don't be hard on yourself. As women, we are programmed to think the best of people... we are trusting. And if it's not in your nature to be suspicious or aggressive, you can't help that. Just like he can't apparently help being a manipulative asshole. At the end of the day, it's better to be you than it is to be him. Because you will always be surrounded with love and affection and he won't. You have done your best for the whole family while he has just done his best for himself. You took his shit because you wanted to keep things positive for the girls. You have been supremely unselfish. Remember that."

    She was going out to dinner with a childhood friend of hers tonight who is a therapist. I have this hope that V will talk about me and her friend will be like, "that woman is in love with you!" So even if she hasn't thought about it yet, she will be forced to consider it. But that is super hypothetical.

    I'm thinking this is going to go down with ME having to confess sooner or later. My brother thinks she is being unforgivably willfully ignorant by not considering my feelings. He may be right. I told him that it's not my friends' fault that I get angry about them being attracted to men, that it's on me to figure out how to deal with that. But he said that if they are true friends, especially now that I'm "out", they should meet me where I'm at too and not just expect me to roll with their hetero-normative shit all the time like it isn't totally foreign to me.

    As for her knowing how I feel, I think it's a little unfair to expect her to consider it. After all, if I've just figured this out myself, I obviously don't win any prizes for being insightful. She could just have low self-esteem and wouldn't consider that I could be into her since I've known what an emotional wreck she is all along. She couldn't know that I have a "thing" for emotionally wrecked women who seem helpless and needy. My brother's take on that is: "she may have low self esteem issues and may not imagine that you could have feelings for her, but she is not a stupid person, so I find that hard to believe."

    So yeah, I can imagine just like it was hard to "come out" to her but I survived, I'll have to be like, "listen, I've fallen for you really hard, and I'd like to keep being a good friend to you, but this is very complicated, and I'm going to need you to help me figure out how this can work." Because I don't want to do what I've done to my attractive friends in the past which is just get possessive and angry and then totally ditch them. But, I just can't see how to put up boundaries without either being honest with her or just ditching her without explanation. And I can't just ditch her anyway, not just because it would be very mean, but also because we live around the corner from each other, and I've grown attached to her kids and them to me, and they go to school together with my son. V is going to be in my life for a good long time no matter what.
     
    #254 RJay, Jul 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  15. Worker Bee

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    Rjay although I would totally have fallen like you in the same situation you really need to fess up. As you've said you're already in too deep and if she doesn't feel something for you then you both need to set some interim measures while working out how to progress to simply great friends such as no lengthy hugging. Plus as much as you want to help her and I can understand the compulsion to keep helping the friendship or whatever it turns out to be needs to be more balanced and reciprocal.

    Although I'm still totally cheering away on the sidelines for a happy ending
     
  16. NeonSocks

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    I think you are approaching this from a very honest position. And considering everything life has put you through recently I give you major props for not hiding in the corner and refusing to face the day. You have courage and strength and no matter what happens in all of this you have proven yourself to be a very strong person with a good heart.

    That being said, relationships are a two way street. You and V are both going through a lot right now, but I would not be afraid to ask her to support you as well. Just continue to be honest both with yourself and her, but let her know that there are days when you are the one that could use an emotional boost.

    As always, I am hoping for the best!
     
  17. RJay

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    It occurs to me that I have really come a long way in a short time, and maybe that's why this situation came into my life. In February, I just started to admit that I might be gay. And I started gradually coming out to people in my family and to old and dear friends, and then to old friends I had been out of touch with. Up until just a couple of weeks ago, though, I hadn't come out to anybody that I see in day to day life. But I've since come out to V and 4 other women I'm friendly with in the neighborhood. I went from, OMG, how am I going to tell people this, and it will make women uncomfortable, and it's just so awkward to actually doing it! And now I'm thinking I can just *tell* V that I'm in love with her, and I'm honestly not that scared of the prospect of doing that.
     
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  18. Moonsparkle

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    RJay, thank you so much (I think I speak for all of us!) for your continued honesty and 'realness' in expressing your feelings around all of this. I think many of us can identify so much with the emotions you are going through as a late in lifers.

    Okay, so this was why I asked about your reaction. And it seems that based on this (as you have already surmised) you may in fact be in too deep here. Don't confuse this with the reaction being 'wrong', or invalid or something you have no right to feel. (A big difference I learned in therapy as I often felt my reactions were wrong, stupid, less than or not valid in some way or another. ) The reaction is not wrong at all, simply an important clue to where you are at.

    Three cheers to brothers! My brother is my biggest supporter too and the first one I came out to. And totally possible your brother has a point here, and that she's aware of your 'crush' and just rolling with it. I find that male perspectives are always helpful to me! However, don't negate the 'chance she may not know' possibility. Seems ridiculously obvious of course, but if her self esteem/self worth etc. is so low she really may not, as in what happened with me and my ex. I was sooo wrapped up in my own 'unworthiness' I couldn't read the clear signals of attraction (and in my case I knew she was bi!). So she may not be making the connection between knowing you are gay and that translating into liking her. Or she may simply be so mired in the pain and hurt caused by her ex and her own stuff that her mind doesn't even have the room TO consider what could be going on with you. Or, as someone pointed out here, she simply may have never considered it since she thinks its just known she is straight.

    Only a direct conversation will give you the answer what's going on with her in relation to you two. And direct conversation is SCARY, it moves you from the sort of safe place of ambiguity (where options remain open) to a place of knowing one way or another. You will know where she's at with her sexuality, with her feelings for you etc. And there is a possibility you may not like what she has to say, or maybe you will. Still you seem to be at the point now where you realize the ambiguity in itself is causing too much distress to go on endlessly.

    I beg to differ on this. Seems you are quite insightful, aware of your patterns in relationships, able to express patterns that cause you pain etc.
    You have said you fall for women who are 'emotional wrecks' and seem to almost swoop in as Florence Nightengale to save the day, all the while not getting your own needs met.

    There are reasons we do everything (collateral gains we may not even see.) And therapy can help. For example one of my big issues was in ALL relationships (men/women) giving away my power to the other person. Or not even realizing I had power or the RIGHT to have power. I just let the other person make the 'rules' of the relationship and went along. Through therapy I first learned why I did this, then we moved on to some reality testing about why I DIDN'T have to do this, delved into what I was 'gaining' from my powerlessness, then we moved onto making changes so I could acknowledge and feel comfortable executing my own power. And I REALLY had to practice this 'new found' skill. It was a long haul, but I'm in such a better place on this now. (MANY MANY other issues I'm still working on of course...) But this is just an example. If the 'Florence Nightengale' syndrome is causing you emotional distress, things CAN get better!

    I know you are feeling pretty low ...but you're doing great. Really. You will get through this. You are going through SOOO many changes right now! Give yourself tons of credit here. And just keep in mind it's never wrong to have feelings for someone, never wrong to fall in love. It doesn't always go the way we want--but then sometimes it does. The quote 'Life is a Mix Tape' comes to mind here.
    Take good care of yourself!
     
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  19. silverhalo

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    Hey sorry I've been absent for a while haha I'm sure you enjoyed the peace.

    I'm wondering on a similar but slightly different scenario, almost a mixture of a couple of others that have been thrown out there in which maybe her subconscious has noticed something out your relationship but that at the moment she is so desperately in need of what she is getting from you (support, help with the kids, friendship, hugs) that she cannot bring herself to analyse what's going on in case that makes it stop. Be that because she is straight and doesn't feel that way and she feels like if she tells you that you will withdraw or because she likes you and worries that telling you that might make things weird etc.

    There is always a chance that she thinks she is imagining the signs as well. I think this can also be a scenario that occurs whether she likes you or not.
     
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  20. RJay

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    We had a long walk in the park today, and I was really careful about keeping physical distance and avoiding too much eye contact. I really feel like the more I touch her and look into her eyes, the further gone I am. I also made sure to talk more about myself, and that led to her asking some questions about how I'm feeling coming to terms with my sexuality. I stopped short of telling her I'm into her, but I did share that it hasn't been easy or straightforward coming to terms with how attracted I am to women after not allowing myself those feelings before. I hemmed and hawed a lot, but I did get some important stuff out there. I also drew her out a bit more about her history, where she is at in terms of looking for a relationship, etc. Turns out she has had a lot of experience with men, and a lot of it was very casual hooking up. Where she is at now is that she has physical desire for men but doesn't think they can meet her emotional needs. She thinks she wants to get her emotional needs met with her friends and her kids and have an occasional fling with whatever guy she can hook up with. I told her my therapist says that she's never had a woman client straight or gay who hasn't had some emotional backlash when they've tried to do the casual sex thing.

    She asked me to go to a movie tonight, and I declined because I have a cousin here from out of town. I told her it was really hard to turn her down, but she was cool.

    Afterwards she sent me the following text:
    "Thanks for the walk! Such a nice afternoon excursion. I just wanted to tell you how impressed I am by your bravery in walking through so many major transitions simultaneously. It's really something to be proud of. And I definitely think pursuing your own piano practice is the most unselfish thing you can do right now. The more you fill yourself up the more you'll have to give to your son."

    And then 30 minutes later (because I didn't answer right away):
    "I hope that didn't read as patronizing btw! I just hope you are giving yourself the credit you deserve :wink:"

    Sooooooooooo here's my plan. I am going to *try* very hard to change the way I see her and just hope the attraction dies down. Because though there is an outside chance that this thing she's feeling about men not meeting her emotional needs *might* somehow translate into her trying something out with me, I'm thinking it's probably not the best idea for me to get hung up on. BUT, if by next month when I'm visiting her at the beach house, I am still struggling with wanting more than friendship from her, I will just come out with it and tell her. If she is a real friend, she will appreciate my honesty and will help me figure out where we go from there. I think if it goes on too much longer with only me bearing the burden of my feelings, I will get really run down. She's going to have to share in the burden if I can't shake it.

    I recently saw the movie, "Tig" on Netflix. It's a documentary about the comedian Tig Notaro who happens to be a lesbian. She and her wife, Stephanie started out just like V and me -- really intense friendship. But Tig was honest pretty early on about having romantic attraction. When they would talk about it, Stephanie kept saying she was straight and Tig was like ok, I'll try to keep being "just friends". But after 6 months of this really intense thing like what's up with us, Tig told Stephanie she couldn't keep it up because she was losing herself in it, and it was preventing her from finding a real partner. After 3 weeks of not talking, Stephanie was the one who came back and said she couldn't live without her and would "try" a full on relationship. They are married with kids now.

    What I took away from the story wasn't so much the happy ending (which I realize is a super slim possibility), but Tig's forthrightness and honesty were super impressive to me. She was honest, tried the relationship Stephanie's way as long as she could, and when she felt she couldn't, she stepped away. Badass. And for a bonus, she actually got the girl!

    Since I just figured out I'm gay essentially yesterday, I consider that a really great model for how to handle situations like this. Tig had all the experience I lack, and she was able to just be super straightforward about it. I mean, we are all grownups here, after all. (Though V isn't acting particularly grown up.)