I'm a young woman and I struggle with internalized misogyny. There are days when I'm very pleased with the way I look and who I'm, yet sometimes I find myself fulfilled with disgust towards women in general (this week for example I'm hateful and I can't stop it). Have some of you had similar experience? How did you battle it? I know I won't go on unless I fight this down.
Why do you feel disgusted? Is it because women are portrayed as slutty, prude, and/or vulnerable? Is it because you just don't identify with being super feminine yourself? I guess identifying the specific causes might help pinpoint a solution. Perhaps finding a therapist would help? I often hated crying because it made me seem vulnerable and weak. And as a young kid, my dad told me that being vulnerable is shameful, so I developed a fear towards having others see me cry. Being surrounded by the idea that crying isn't shameful helped me. (ex. friends, youtubers, school staff, etc)
I feel the exact same way, well with less hatred, and more of a feeling of disgust and awkwardness... I tend to have internalized sexist thoughts towards my own sex, and the truth is I dont really know why. The only way I know of to get over Internalized misogyny is to of course socialize and get to know people of the same sex, especially people who you would originally hate without reason. It is near impossible to fight Internalized feelings with sheer thought, and the best way to fight it off is with action
In my case, I just have misanthropy. I think both men and women are equally shitty beings, and that they both have pros and cons that aren't any better or worse than the other. That's always something to keep in mind. For every one crappy woman there's also a crappy man. Humanity in general is crappy.
I'm probably not wording this right, but in my opinion, I wonder if it could be subtle conditioning, either from people around you while growing up, or media, etc just being subconsciously rooted, if that makes sense. But also, sometimes there are people out there, of any gender, who are infuriating; I agree with Creativemind about that. There are women out there who can be incredibly abusive (even sexually) to men and women, and there are women who are doormats for men and very subservient, etc. And, I don't have to mention about men (even though certainly not all men are shitty either, I don't mean to say that. Even though there are alot of good men and women, there are ALOT of not great ones as well), statistics about crime, violence, mentality towards women speak for themselves. I think, try to be around people of the same sex who inspire you, either creative, innovative, or just different, if possible. That will at least divert your attention from the not-so-great ones. Sometimes (at least for me), even though I may know something intellectually, it takes experiencing something to sometimes fully learn and understand it.
There are a few reasons why I feel this way. 1) I always knew that I was attracted to girls and to some degree I greatly feared it. I felt like I have to make boys seem appealing to me, so I kept cultivating an idea that women are weak and pathetic and men are in general the opposite. I used to look at a picture of a guy (let's say a writer or a scientist) and say things like "I don't like the way he looks but he's probably a smart, witty guy and his worth is greater than mine". After a while I believed it; I was raised in a conservative household where fair women would often share their misogynistic statements like: "Only a man can fulfill a woman"; "Men are better cooks/doctors/writers etc"; "Lesbians just need to be properly banged". 2) The first girl I fell for used to despise women. It confirmed my previous belief - I just assumed she was right. 3) I always felt like women were treated on average less seriously than men. This problem is not affecting me daily, I'd rather say I'm getting better at handling my prejudices. About a year ago I faced a depression which was caused mostly by the inferiority complex and growing social anxiety (both were linked to my dissatisfaction with me being a girl). I locked myself in my house for a few months. In my darkest days I started expecting body dysmorphia (to forestall your questions - I'm definitely not trans. I didn't experience any of those issues before I started hating females; I feel like I'm a girl who is just gender non-conforming). Crativemind, that's a very rational approach. I fear I simply crossed a line a long time ago and I forced so many things upon me that I'm not able to think this way anymore. When I was a teenager a thought of having an intercourse with a guy seemed dreadful, but as a time went on I decided that I have to break my inner resistance because that's what I'm supposed to do in the future and it's better for me to like it. After letting myself explore my same-sex interests I started noticing more and more girls that are superb! The feelings that I taste with them are way different than before. I don't know how to abandon the idea that my duty is to find a guy and please him; it's rooted in my unconsciousness. I agree with the last point you made - I understand that most of my beliefs are idiotic but I can't uproot them. They come always when I'm the most vulnerable.
I can sort of see where you are coming from now. I think you've been brainwashed by cultural homophobia and that lesbians are inferior/women need a man. I have also been through this. I remember wishing I could just grow a penis (even though I am not trans at all) because that was the only way I could give a girl the 'real thing'. I was depressed and suicidal over the fact that I couldn't have real relationships or sex with a girl, because women need men and men are the real thing. But then I realized I was wrong and that I was full of bullshit. Once I started dating women, I realized that you can have a real relationship and sex with them. Plus, there are many benefits of lesbian relationships over straight ones. - More sexual pleasure and orgasms (statistics have proven that lesbians have better sex lives than straight women as well as a higher amount of orgasms). - No accidental pregnancies, can choose if/when to have children. - No double standards. Straight women have to deal with men who want them to look a certain way but do no maintenance themselves. There are a lot of shitty things about hetero relationships and straight men, that it helps to look on the bright side- you'll never have to deal with that crap. Even some straight women wish they were lesbians because the hetero masculinity stuff can be toxic.
I see. No, I get where you're coming from, in terms of deep-rooted mental conditioning, I still struggle with some things like that, where I just can't fully change my views of certain things or fears that had shaped me, even when a very trusted person with great judgment, not opinionated, non-biased is trying to help. I wish I had more to say about how to deal with that or get past that, but i'm still stuck in that feeling like a mule that will not budge as well. Sometimes the subconscious sucks more than it helps :/
1. Agreed. 2. I did, well, not hate but judge women growing up. I was never the most girly kid around and people constantly told me that I shouldn't do certain things because I'm a girl. Most girls in my class even stopped playing with me and insulted me for having short hair and wearing boys clothes while having no problem when boys did the very same thing. So eventually I started looking down on 'stereotypical' girls for wearing make up, wanting to be Topmodels, hanging out in large cliques etc. Now that I'm older I understand that those girls where under a lot of pressure to fit in and I respect them for that. And just as I had the right to be myself, they had that too which includes being allowed to like and wear the things I judged them for. I think that people should stop trying to discourage people from being indivuduums and start accepting each other, but that's probably never going to happen. 3. The depiction of lesbian couples in the media is there and it's probably a factor because it's not nearly as progressive as everyone claims it to be.
I get what you mean. I was never a typical girly girl myself. I was a tomboy that avoided dresses and make up like the plague. I loved video games, learning facts, and action oriented hobbies. Didn't really enjoy talking about clothes or relationships, when most girls seemed to. For a while I went through the phase of thinking I couldn't be friends with girls because we didn't have much in common. But now my best friend is another woman, except she's not a typical one. She's very into video games, nerdy stuff, science/math, deep subjects, etc. We've been friends for ten years and not once have we ever discussed girly things like clothing or relationships (unless it was relationship stuff between fictional characters as we are both writers and enjoy character development advice. Just not in regards to our own lives). It was nice, because it showed me that not all women are the same and that I would have missed out if I continued to exclude them from my life.
I think this is the core of the problem. Unfortunately it is true. (Not that I am dismissing the rest of your -- very well put -- points.) I think this is the core of the answer. It made me smile!
Yes, it's definitely toxic. A wish to "just grow a penis" - pretty relatable. I think dating women might clear things up for me. Unfortunately I have to wait at least a year, because my parents are slightly homophobic. 2. Surprisingly I'm the one that's always defending these girls; most of my misogyny is directed at me. These feelings of loathing made me suicidal and I was always careful to never make other girls feel the way I felt. I don't hate them for doing these girlish things, but I never allow myself act the way they do. 3. The way media portrays lesbians is let's say at best bad. On the other hand I wonder if even a bad image isn't better than no representation at all. I don't think I can recall a TV series or a movie that was made in my country and at the same time had any lesbian character in it. This topic is simply non-existent. What's most confusing for me is the fact that all the actions I have taken resulted in obtaining this weird attraction towards guys. An unhealthy attraction, but still - attraction. Attraction that would make me aroused yet fearful. [Here I'm going to share a lot of unnecessary details, you might want to skip this part if reading about sexual stuff makes you uncomfortable] In order to like boys in a sexual manner I used to force myself to masturbate to the images of guys or I would fantasize about boys having an intercourse with me. I failed miserably; it all felt so wrong and disgusting. I started doing it because I was afraid of my attraction to girls. I felt like a pervert so I wanted badly to be able to feel same with guys. During this time I fell for a boy (for the first time, before I wouldn't even have crushes on guys). It's all so confusing. I would stop questioning a long time ago if not this situation with him. I couldn't fantasize about him, I didn't want to engage with him in a longer relationship but I would definitely feel different about him. But it all felt so awkward; no butterflies only tension... I don't know how I feel about him. I feel for him during period when my hated towards myself and other women has reached its peak and he started hitting on me. Very weird. Maybe I'm just a Kinsey 4 or 5. But those feelings make me panic, they are completely unwanted. I can't make up my mind.
I think sometimes it can be hard to distinct between actually having a crush and convincing yourself you have a crush because you feel like you ought to have one. As Creativemind once wisely told me:" sometimes it's much harder to admit that you aren't attracted to guys than admitting that you like girls" I don't actually know if there's a way to stop feeling bad about yourself being a woman. I do know that many girls, including straight ones, seem to feel that way too. I always tried to deal by trying to proof the world wrong, which isn't necessarily the healthiest way considering that the world had already accepted me and I was the one who was truly struggeling with accepting myself. My mother always reminded mme that boys have their hardships too and that women tend to be better in some aspects, that we have contributed a lot to history as it is. I don't know if that helps, maybe true acceptance will come with age. I hope you'll find a girl and the inner acceptance to be with her.
Thank you Cinis, I think I've already chosen a right path and now I need time to slowly accept who I'm. I only sometimes feel very lonesome because I don't have a person who'd feel comfortable discussing such topics. My psychologist entirely lacked understanding; she saw being queer as an anomaly and it would bring me down. That's probably the main reason why I'm pouring myself out here.
