What do you guys think of "SJWs"?

Hmm. I never thought about teachers. I mean, they're a little different. I don't think they should be expressing just any opinion they have, because they are supposed to teach, and them randomly expressing opinions whenever might turn into them persuading students to agree with them. I am against any teacher ever telling you what opinion to have. But I don't know.

But I am certainly for the students expressing whatever opinions they have, so long as they aren't spouting them in the middle of a lesson or something. I believe in free speech for the students, 100%.

Also, did I claim that free speech meant saying whatever you want? Because I don't see myself saying anything like that, as I never believed that was remotely true. Freedom of speech protects your right to have whatever opinions you want, and say them out loud. Of course, there is a line, and that line is when speech becomes literally threatening. Hate speech includes things like "I hate this group of people." or "I wish this group of people would stop being so this." and so on. Those statements are not threatening. If you feel threatened by these statements, that's kind of your problem, as it is unreasonable. Threatening statements include "I'd gladly kill this" or "I will kill this" and so on. A reasonable person may find those threatening, as they are threats. This is where the line is drawn, not at hate speech.

Hate speech seems to be objective in society anyway, as black people can say they hate white people without the media batting an eye, but white people say they hate black people, and they get banned from social media(if it was a social media post) and publicly shamed(for the record, I do think social media can ban whoever they want, it's just hypocritical when they ban this statement and not the other). But, whether your opinion is classified under hate speech or not, if it is just an opinion, and not a threat, you have the right to express in general, and in a public school environment.

As for forming your own groups with its own rules, do that all you want. If someone doesn't like it, they can just not join. Same with PRIVATE organizations. If you don't like what that organization does, don't give them your attention or business. But public schools are not private organizations, and this is what I was referring to. I don't want my general campus to be a safe space, I want it to be a space for any student to express their non-threatening opinions, which may include "hate speech", and if I don't agree, that's life.

Private schools are tricky subject though, as they are private organizations, and I don't know what kind of rights their students have. It may just depend(for example, to be admitted into a Christian school, a general rule may be, don't dis God). I have never gone to a private school, and I don't want to think about this right now. I am talking about for me, at my school, I do not want my campus to be a safe space, protecting me from people's opinions.

I am all for there being a few safe spaces in specific places on campus though. (for example, Queer Resource Center)

 

Oh no who I'm talking about is somebody named Milo Stewart on YouTube. He's crazy like holy shit I mean they seem nice but I really don't like their beliefs on all white people are racist, all men are misogynistic, and other crazy opinions.

 

Yikes, girl! I feel you. I had a discussion with a few 'lesbians' once about if we'd stay with our partner if our partner came out as ftm... they were really baffled because I said that I probably wouldn't, because I would not be sexually attracted to my partner anymore if my partner transitioned into a man. Like, do they honestly think that it would be doable to stay with someone you're not sexually attracted to, both for you and for the partner? Do they seriously believe that the relationship could work in the long run? If somebody would suggest that a lesbian could be with a man, no one would agree and every one of these lesbians would have been offended, but it supposedly is weird and shocking that a lesbian would not want to be with a ftm? Do they even see ftm's as men then? Lol, these people.

 

Exactly, I wouldn't do it either. I can understand it if they have a more fluid number on the kinsey scale, but I'm a 6. 6's can be attached to men and their personalities, but it only goes as far as friendship to us. Love isn't enough to override the turn-off that is being with a man- trans included.

If anything, breaking up with them shows that you respect their gender identity.

 

Exactly. I am baffled by SJW's attacking lesbians for simply being lesbians. We get enough shit from society for not liking men already.. it honestly is shocking to me that we're getting it from within our own 'community' now as well.

 

I wanted to preface by saying that I believe this to be an important discussion; I am not trying to be rude or hostile with my response, but as someone who currently works as an educator and someone who is studying to be a college-level educator, the issue of what speech is permitted in an educational environment is one that is very personal and crucial to me, and I do believe we are at a crossroads as a nation on this issue. I have not given this little thought.

Indeed they are different. As a teacher I have a duty to educate my students and to keep the classroom as politically neutral as possible. A teaching position is not a soapbox to indoctrinate students to your personal and political philosophy. A sharing of opinions can of course be warranted under certain circumstances, but a teacher is in a precarious position of being an influence over developing minds. They must tread carefully, so as not to be too influential on their students political and philosophical opinions.

So then you agree that the domain of free speech is not unrestricted. Students can express their opinions, yes, but not in an unlimited domain. The classroom has a rule against disruption, so shouting your opinions in class is prohibited. So it is not 100%

I'm confused by a seeming contradiction here. You say that free speech does not mean saying whatever you want, but then you say that it means the right to have whatever opinions you want, and say them out loud. Keep in mind that "I think all Muslims should be exterminated" is an opinion. It does not necessarily constitute a direct threat, but it has an embedded threat. Would you consider an opinion of this type to constitute a "threat"? Does the intent to carry out a desire for violence matter here? How can we gauge this?

You are correct; "hate speech" is fundamentally not objective, though certainly the language of the word "hate" may be a dead giveaway. Public shaming may be unfortunate, but there is no law against public shaming. It's simply a consequence of some types of speech; we can't pass a law saying that you cannot react negatively to certain types of speech, that you cannot call it out, and that people cannot exercise their freedom to boycott your business or enforce the rules of their website. There is a difference between a legal punishment from the government for free speech (which is not permitted on account of the first amendment) and social consequences for speech (which are unavoidable and not all restricted by the first amendment).

Do you believe that public schools have a duty to prevent bullying and harassment? It is one thing to say "I hate gay people" to your friend quietly in the halls. It is another to shout "Gay people are disgusting perverts!" every time the openly-gay student walks by. Would the latter be classified as potential bullying or harassment and grounds for punishment of the one who "expresses his opinion"?

I will let you know from my experiences as a teacher that yes, public schools do have a responsibility to prevent bullying and harassment, and they also have a responsibility to prevent distractions and set some semblance of a dress code. I could not enter class wearing a T-shirt with a swastika on it, students could not wear a shirt that says "Christians are Idiots" even if that is their "personal opinion". These shirts would be regarded as distracting, creating a hostile environment, etc.

From this we can establish that despite your wishes, public schools are not free speech free-for-alls:

1. Speech is limited in classrooms. Classrooms cannot have distractions.
2. Teachers are limited in the opinions they can express due to their influence over students.
3. Public schools can freely ban certain clothing if it is seen as distracting or promoting hostility.
4. Public schools have a duty to prevent bullying and harassment and thus opinions expressed as a means of intimidation can be a violation of their rules.

I am glad that you recognize the rights of private groups and institutions, but it's important to recognize that public schools, while not granted the autonomy of private ones, are not unrestricted in the type of environment they set for their students. Public schools are fundamentally not supposed to be a place where students feel hated or threatened, and if they do feel that way, they have a right to speak up, and there may be consequences in store for the offending students. All the first amendment guarantees is that the government will not jail someone for their speech nor will they pass a law restricting free speech. It does not mean that there cannot be non-legal consequences for what you say. Speech always has consequences.

 

Sjw is a term that is now used to stigmatize people on the left who say things you disagree with. Just even looking at this thread, people are citing different issues that they have problems with that are expressed and militarized to different degrees.

Some times when people say "all white people are racist" they are trying to say "all white people are capable of saying racist things or acting in racist ways, even if they don't mean to or don't realize what they're doing", but it certain individuals in the left can take this to the extreme in some scenarios, especially when exasperating or venting. Likewise, some people here on this website or else where might find the explanation for why white people may be unintentionally racist reasonable, while others will find it awful and wildly unacceptable.

That's not to say that people don't have certain associations with the term sjw that are consistent, but their perceptions of what sjw's "believe" as a group or as a website (like tumblr) is often not matched with the reality of what these "sjw's" "believe". For example, the whole triggering and safe space bs is something some people on all sides have blown out of proportion. Triggering is a term useful in relation to trauma and ptsd, but has been used inappropriately by some people, and is considered to be more widely used by ""sjw's" or by far left people or by tumblr than it actually is (it's hard to key in to who we are talking about because people always use sjw's to talk about liberal people in a very generalized non specific way that hides who we are actually talking about). The term safe space is a giant mess that has lost most of its meaning in general conversation and almost everyone knows this, even those who keep using it (note that I'm talking about an online context primarily).

Call out culture, over-sensitivity, and policing of attitudes and beliefs is something almost everyone takes part in on the political spectrum, liberal, moderate, or conservative. It's problem for all groups and is a reflection of the political and social climate.

 

I know of people who like to censor talk about vaginas on behalf of trans women, which I dislike for similar/the same reasons you do. Completely agree lesbians get targeted in this context over other groups. Left groups need to allow for talk about genitals where appropriate.
And anyone who argues that lesbians are intolerant for being not attracted to men is homophobic.
But who are these "sjw's"? Especially/mainly the bi women?

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I dunno I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I don't understand who these "sjw's" supposedly are and what they all supposedly believe. The term gets thrown around a lot that it's more used as an insult than an actual identifier. (Im not talking to/at you specifically anymore Creativemind, I could just relate to some of the stuff you posted)

There are people who haven't fully developed or thought about the support for their own beliefs that like to throw them at other people, there are people who are trying to be the "most least problematic", there are people who are trying to be inclusive who fuck it up and hurt other people, there are people who are just plain ignorant.

On the other side of the issue there are people who are hyper sensitive to things that don't confirm or conform to their world view, who are skeptical of academic work, who are skeptical of feminism regardless of its packaging or actual contents, who read and accept information as valid selectively, who have limited world experience and/or assume their life experiences encapsulate everyone's experiences, or who assume that their beliefs are very normal and anything that falls outside that is radical and crazy regardless of evidence.

Not that there can't be overlap between the two sides. But when people assume that people more strongly to the left as a group (not talking about the sjw label now) do most of the things on both lists more often than anyone else and therefore are sjw's is pretty biased and shortsighted. Or they are in online networks/communities that only let them see the worst of the other side and the best of their own.

 

They mean well, but I'd say they're guided more by emotions than logic at times.

(oops I think I accidentally posted in the middle of a conversation, sorry!)

 

As someone who does go to a private school which has safe spaces, believe me my campus is not one big safe space. Sure teachers put signs on their doors but there are also teachers who subtly take them down once in a while, which is what happened with one of our new math teachers. When someone pointed it out to him, the next day it was mysteriously gone. My school (surprisingly) is actually very accepting and lenient on LGBT+ policies, at least when compared to other schools in my region.

There is a private school just a few miles from my house that has the ten commandments listed in every room, which is just a visual of the strict rules it has. It really just depends for private schools. I cant tell you however what the LGBT policies of these schools are mainly because I don't know of any LGBT students from the schools. (which may say a lot in my opinion)

While I agree with your freedom of speech points, it is completely inappropriate in my school to spout hate speech mainly because we have a pretty good population of kids whose parents are immigrants to the United States. (At least for Kentucky that is) Because of that we LGBT kids get included. I doubt that if all my peers were white, and if our principal wasn't LGBT, we would have that protection.

Just a bit of insight into private schools and safe spaces. Mainly it all just depends on the school and who goes there.