This probably could've gone in the general vent thread, but I haven't made a whole thread in a while so whatevs. Perhaps TW for vague suicidal thoughts and I might make you feel bad about something you don't even think about. My body dysphoria is usually manageable. I hate my hips, don't like to take my shirt off, am jealous of cis male genetalia, all that, but it's not really overwhelming usually. Most of my physical dysphoria has either been mostly solved by T and will surely continue to improve, or I at least know that I have the option to surgically correct in the future. But here's the thing. My fiancee is pretty into genealogy and all that and had both of us DNA tested about a year ago. I am also interested in this, but talking about it makes me feel uncomfortable almost to the point of being suicidal any time I'm reminded about my chromosomes, or sometimes just when we talk about biology in general. This mainly comes up because biological females can only test their maternal DNA or whatever. (I am not a scientist and lack proper terminology my bad.) This is pretty much the one part of me that is irreconcilably female and it makes me feel so hopeless and humiliated. And I don't know why. It's a stupid chromosome and I can't see it or feel it. But it's like, the one thing I can't change. As soon as I start to think about it my mind automatically goes to "Might as well kill myself" because I feel like that's the only way out of it. Don't worry, I don't actually have suicidal tendencies. It's just the first thing I think every time. Idk why this gets to me so bad. I am okay with being trans. I almost think it is kind of cool and interesting and just part of what makes me me. And if I didn't have the "wrong" chromosomes, I would not be trans and I would not be me. But still this really eats me up inside and makes me feel disgusting. Anyone else have similar thoughts when discussing/thinking about biology?
I had my chromosome check a while ago and was pretty disappointed when the result was XX. I think most trans people go trough this at a certain point. My T values are in the upper end of normal so I could brush it aside. Seriously I thought about it too. But there are cis males who have XX and no one notices. If I was you, I'd probably try to ignore the topic, pick a penis in above average size and a real fast sports car
I understand this, and what I'll say to it will not necessarily be comforting. I know dysphoria is not a logical agent, but is nonetheless very real. But maybe it will help. Biological sex is as much a false binary and social construct as is gender. To demonstrate, but hopefully not to make this entire post about me, I have XX chromosomes. I also have a prostate, a dick and undescended testes. XX chromosomes don't make a person female. They mean very, very little in the end. Chromosomes are concerned with sexual reproduction on a cellular level; the information required to produce physical sexual characteristics is not carried on the X and Y chromosomes, though its activation is triggered by them. I don't know how much this will mean to you, as it doesn't give you the characteristics you may want etc. But femininity and femaleness are not carried by the chromosomes. Trans women are female. You are not. Having XX chromosomes really only mean that you're less prone to certain genetic diseases. Also to continue the random autistic infodump, I believe the maternal DNA thing your referring to is not quite what you think. I believe you're referring to mitochondrial DNA, which isn't passed on by sexual reproduction like most of your DNA. Instead, it is only inherited from the parents with XX chromosomes; people with other chromosomes can still have it tested, but not pass it on to children.
I will be going for meta rather than phallo if I ever get bottom surgery, but I'll certainly be looking into a corvette in the future to make up for my tiny meta dick haha. ---------- Post added 22nd Feb 2017 at 10:07 AM ---------- That does make me feel better, actually. Thanks. Maybe it would help if my fiancee stopped referring to people with XX chromosomes as "female". I don't think I've ever told her how much this bothers me. Though to me it should be obvious.
Respect from your partner is important; I hope you manage to work things out. I agree it seems obvious, and it shouldn't have to be up to you to educate them. But cis people struggle to empathise with dysphoria often, and thus won't be driven to question their norms of gender like we are.
It is important to clarify some things: You can't dismiss biological sex as a false/generic thing. The sexual chromosomes are extremely useful to understand many biological and comportamental processes. There are many studies about genetics that use or explain these chromosomes, directly or indirectly. Their meaning isn't as "malleable" as some people believe: Today, it is possible to say that we have a good understanding of how they work. But, yes, we can't explain gender based purely on chromosomes. Being female or male is much, much more than having XX, XY or other combination of chromosomes. It appears to have a relation with gender considering the statistics: For example, most XX people are women, and most XY people are men. However, not everyone follows this rule, and that's enough to show that chromosomes aren't proof of your gender. If you are male, you are male, regardless if you are XX, XY, or another combination. If you are female, you are female, regardless if you are XX, XY or another combination. Yes, the chromosomes have their importance (for example, to explain the mitochondries HojaVioleta mentioned), but your gender is explained by other things, that aren't dependant on them. TL;DR: Chromosomes are extremely important to explain biological processess, but they aren't sufficient to explain gender. If you are male, you are male. It doesn't matter if you are XX, that doesn't mean it is a "female part on you". It is not. If you identify as male, then that's it (not as simple, of course, but you will use other areas to explain gender, not the chromosomes). We humans have the (not really good) habit of labeling everything. For example, we look at a penis and say: "Oh, that is a male part". However, what it means to be male? Today, we can safely say that having a penis doesn't mean you are male or female. Same with chromosomes: They are important, they aren't "fake" or "dismissable". But they are simply not enough to explain gender, and it isn't really correct to label XX as "female chromosomes" or XY as "male chromosomes". "Male" and "female" are words that aren't dependant on "XX" or "XY".
I'm with Chiroptera. But then by now I think everyone knows that, LOL. Biological reality is biological reality, and can't be changed no matter how much any of us would like it to. All we can change is the physical appearance and hormonal balances.
I never said chromosomes were false. I said it was a social construct. Merely that a)their impact on sex is overestimated, re the fact that most of the information is not carried on the sex chromosomes, and also the extremely common existence of intersex people and b) that it is presented as a false binary. biological sex is far more complicated. There is more or less a reproductive binary, though with the rather obvious addition of infertile people. However there is more to biological sex than this, and it is indeed a false binary much like gender. Norms of sex are socially constructed, that doesn't mean that they aren't based on things that are real. They're just really shit and wrong.
I've had "chromosome dysphoria" before, kind of. It's not chromosomes per se, just the parts that you can't change. That idea that "I can have all the surgeries and take all the hormones but it can't make me female(or male in your case). But here's the thing: all that is rooted in inside-out thinking. Human beings didn't really start to understand or care fore the planet we live on until we went to the moon and got a different perspective, and you have to do the same thing with sex/gender. There is this assumption in society that average=proper, and that's just not the case. When you get outside of the sphere and look in you see that chromosomes are just a small part of the process of creating males and females, and don't mean anything other than that you have those particular ones. Same goes for the genitalia you were born with and the effects of the hormones your gonads produce. It's all coincidental, the only thing that is fundamental to who you are is your sense of self.
I get what your saying though I feel it is less a social construct and more misinformation and ignorance. High school biology classes do not teach you the vast majority of this information and just boil it down to XX is female and XY is male, and they completely leave out how there are more than just those two. In fact, college level biologies classes at my school do not cover that either. A lot of nurses here found out when they took a human sexuality class (something labeled as a psychology class and is basically what high school sex ed ought to be) and the teacher covered that. Relating back to original intent of thread I never really experienced chromosome dysphoria. I guess it doesn't matter to me if I have XX since I know females with XY. I never really understood why people assumed these things equated to male or female
I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. There is a vast amount of misinformation about biological sex, and also medical ignorance and a complete absence of medical ethics, as my own experiences as an intersex person confirm. This isn't the place to continue this discussion and derail a person's request for help, however.
Thanks, but be careful with what you are calling "biological reality". Of course, biological sex is important, especially in other animals, to explain a variety of processes. However, chromosomes or biological sex isn't nearly sufficient to explain things like gender. For the most part, gender is something that can't be explained solely by biological concepts. What i'm trying to say is: Biology is important. Natural sciences are important. However, when explaining gender, we need other sciences, like psychology or social sciences (but biology still helps a bit! Take a look at Google Scholar, there are many interesting papers about gender or sexual orientation). Bottom line: Natural sciences are not our enemy. But they don't explain everything without the help of other sciences. They aren't. Being extremely simple: Chromosomes are "made of" deoxyribonucleic acid. How is that a social construct? What i mean here is: Gender is a social construct. Chromosomes aren't. Not really. X and Y are really important from an biological point of view, and there already many researches explaining their role. I fail to see your point as why they are overestimated. Intersex people, on the contrary, support my point that they are important, as we can explain intersex using the chromosomes (in some cases). Yes, can't disagree with you here, especially in the bold part. That problem is directly related to problems in our educational system (and not in science per se). Please understand: Chromosomes are important, and we can't just dismiss them as "ah, they are overestimated" or "nah, they aren't important". They are extremely important to explain many biological processes. However, gender is a different thing, much more complex, that can't be explained solely by chromosomes or biology. Repeating: That doesn't mean they aren't important to explain other things, because they are. But, when we are talking about gender, especially in humans, chromosomes aren't determinant, and i think this is obvious to everyone here. Exactly. I agree with you. To sum up everything i said: I think the cause of concern here is around the idea of "XX=Female" and "XY=Male". Like Matto_Corvo said, a certain combination of chromosomes aren't equal to male or female. TL;DR: Chromosomes are an important part of biology, and they explain a variety of phenomena. However, they aren't determinant when explaining gender, especially on humans. Gender is much more complex than that. Because of problems in our education system, we are educated to believe that "XX=Female" and "XY=Male", and that's simply not true. Being a man or a woman is much more than your genitals, or chromosomes. To the OP: In resume of this discussion, it is understandable that you are thinking about chromosomes, especially with the way scientific education works in most of the world today. However, it is important to remember that your gender isn't determined by them. Being a man or a woman isn't dependant on XX or XY. These are important, yes, but to explain biological processes (like some characteristics that are passed on by them). But having the combination "XX" or "XY" doesn't mean you have "feminine chromosomes" or "masculine chromosomes", or that you are "less of a man" or "less of a woman" because of that combination. Repeating: gender isn't dependant on them. Don't worry about your chromosomes. If someone is using them to justify prejudice or, even unintentionally referring to them as "male chromosomes" and "female chromosomes", that person didn't really understand how chromosomes or gender works. On a side note, as a teacher, it is sad to see how common is this confusion, even between other teachers. I have the priviledge to work with the human side of things too (here in EC and in other works and papers). However, some teachers take this "chromosome binarism" and try to explain gender using them, which is obviously wrong, and it ends up confusing the students. That's why discussing gender and sexual orientation in the classroom is important: To avoid these misunderstandings.
My take on Chromosomes; obviously there is much more to it than this but to bring it down to a nut shell.... wither you get XX or XY or some combination, the main function of this is to determine your role in propagation of the species IE: if you produce and deliver sperm or produce and carry an egg and a subsequent baby. that's just biological sex. Gender is much more nuanced involving perception, and self image, what we call identity. so biological sex is between your legs and gender is between your ears.
