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About the proper reason for pride

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by WarmEmbrace, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. WarmEmbrace

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    I went to an activism group last night , organised by a local non governmental organisation advocating for LGBTQIA rights, and at some point we did this exercise where each of us talked with a random person there that we hadn't met before for 5 minutes, then we were asked to briefly describe them, what were their values, and what were their needs.

    Of course, the list ended up being quite long and interesting, but one person did say something about the fact that they are super-proud of being gay (and was miffed with closeted persons). If you think of it on a more general level, is it really okay to be proud of something we have no choice over?

    Isn't this kind of pride the same with being proud of your skin color, or being proud of you nationality ? You didn't really chose either of those, they are neither your merit nor your fault. So why take so much pride in it?

    Wouldn't be more accurate to say that this pride is for accepting it as normality? For choosing to not hide? For overcoming the self doubts, and self hate imprinted to us by society. That acceptance, that courage is something that we ourselves have achieved, and therefore in this case pride is justified. Or because some of us have spent so much time in shame, we identify reducing that shame as pride, even though it is just a state of normality?

    Now I am not saying that the a generally accepting society hasn't done a lot of unwarranted damage in the past, and some compensation for that marginalisation wouldn't be in order, but being proud for the sole virtue of being associated with one community or another by right of birth alone is not really what healthy pride should be about, is it?

    I did bring this up in the group and it did find quite a bit of traction. How do you feel about it ? What are your opinions ?

    ---------- Post added 14th Feb 2017 at 10:33 AM ----------

    'a generally un-accepting society' - typo in the second to last paragraph :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    ---------- Post added 14th Feb 2017 at 10:42 AM ----------

    Again these are my thoughts and my opinions, and I am trying to filter them through other people's views to gain more clarity... I'm not trying to convince anyone of what they should or should not be proud about :slight_smile:
     
  2. Smores

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    I believe that all of these can be true depending on the person. I personally think that viewing it as pride for nationality/race is very accurate but it is also being proud that you had the courage to come out and be yourself. i especially think this because while i'm happy for having come to terms with who i am, I do't feel like I can be proud, partially having to do with my closeted status. I hope i was able to add to this conversation.
     
  3. darkcomesoon

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    I'm proud of being bisexual because society told me not to be.

    Being bisexual is a random trait just like my skin color is, but I've never felt proud of my skin color. No one ever told me I was inferior for being white. I didn't grow up hating myself for being white. Other than the fact that it means I'm not a victim of racism, it's just a fact about me. I don't feel ashamed, but I don't feel proud either.

    I hated myself for not being straight. Even growing up in a liberal area, I had enough access to the internet to have the idea that gay people were disgusting crammed down my throat. I knew that gay people weren't allowed to get married. I knew that people thought I was going to burn in hell (I didn't even believe in hell, but I was pretty sure I would still somehow suffer for being such a disgusting person and giving into my "sinful" desires). I am proud to be bisexual because that is the only way I know how to respond to the hateful messaged I received and internalized. To the people who say that being bisexual is wrong, I say I love my sexuality, I am happy the way I am, and I am proud.

    Pride is a reaction to others telling you to be ashamed. I don't think anyone is proud of being LGBT just because that happens to be their identity. I think everyone who feels pride about their sexuality or gender feels that way because they have been told they should be ashamed. So I think you're correct to say that people feel proud of their identity because they have overcome that shame and they have the courage to be themselves when others tell them not to. I just think that usually when people say "I'm proud to be gay", that subtext is implied. I don't run around saying "I'm proud to have overcome the stigma and shame associated with my sexuality" because a) that's kinda personal to be telling a bunch of strangers and b) it's just so long and clunky. I say "I'm proud to be bisexual" and what I mean is "I'm proud to have the courage to be myself in the face of people who would rather I get killed than be happy this way".


    If the person expressed irritation with people who choose to be closeted, I think that's super obnoxious, although not entirely related to the subject at hand. I think sometimes people get so wrapped up in the pride that comes from being happily and openly out that they forget that not everyone can have that or even wants that.
     
    #3 darkcomesoon, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  4. WarmEmbrace

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    @Smores :slight_smile: Thank you eo much, you you did add to the conversation.
    @darkcomessoon : I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head with the sentence : I don't run around saying "I'm proud to have overcome the stigma and shame associated with my sexuality" because a) that's kinda personal to be telling a bunch of strangers and b) it's just so long and clunky. I say "I'm proud to be bisexual" and what I mean is "I'm proud to have the courage to be myself in the face of people who would rather I get killed than be happy this way". :slight_smile: Thank you :grin:
     
  5. baconpox

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    I agree with darkcomesoon 100%