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Is it offensive to ask if someone's trans?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by YeahpIdk, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. YeahpIdk

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    Hey peeps.

    So a few days ago, a friend of mine went on a date. Like any normal friend would, I got excited and told her to tell me about it. She said, "I met him on [popular lesbian dating app]." At first glance, the two things contradicted themselves, so I said, "trans? Hot?" And instead of clarifying (this is where I'm wondering if I'm being wrong, by asking for clarification), she said, "I was very attracted to him." So I asked, "so are they trans or a dude?" And she said, "does it matter?"

    No. I don't think it matters. I asked because, I don't believe that "him" on a lesbian dating app automatically = trans man. It seems most likely, but I was curious to know if maybe there were genderqueer people on there or something. I just didn't want to assume someone was trans when people identify many different ways.

    Her response has made me really angry. As if I was some moronic straight girl who was asking a stupid, judgmental question. Was it stupid? Is it offensive to ask if someone is trans?? It really was only slightly confusing because she paired it with the lesbian app.

    I just don't feel like asking if someone is trans is a big deal, but if it is rude or disrespectful, I need to know.

    Sorry if this sounds stupid, lol. Her response super pissed me off, but if I'm in the wrong, I do not want to be ignorant.
     
  2. Kal

    Kal
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    It's okay to be curious but I guess her point is valid. My girlfriend is asked similar questions because she's dated mainly women for the last number of years, so the assumption is made that she's exclusively lesbian. I think sexuality runs deeper than people think and these days, people are more keen to see the person before the gender, depending on how open minded they are. I think generally speaking, it doesn't sound like you were malicious. However, I usually wait for someone to impart certain information rather than flat out asking. For example: someone says they've recently been in hospital and haven't expanded on why. I wouldn't ask why because to me, that's impolite and none of my business. I also wouldn't ask someone what disability their family member has if they tell me they're a career. Or if someone was dating someone with a seemingly African or Asian name, I wouldn't ask their ethnicity.

    I don't think you're ignorant but maybe realigning your manner to what you need to know rather than what you want to know. Your emotional reaction to her challenge is yours to own.

    ---------- Post added 27th Jan 2017 at 01:44 AM ----------

    *carer
     
  3. YeahpIdk

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    Thanks, Kal.

    I wouldn't ask just anyone this question, because I agree it would be impolite. This is a friend that's a good friend. It feels as though she were purposely being obscure to teach me a lesson or something. That gender doesn't matter. If anyone knows gender doesn't matter, it's me. I just didn't completely understand what she was saying. And it doesn't matter. It is valid to just say him and expect no other questions, even if she said the dating app, but because of the nature of the app, it was a little unclear. And again, I wouldn't ask just anyone that question, but she's a relatively close friend.

    I see your end point, though. I still think the way she went about it was a bit ridiculous. Just because someone identifies as a man, does that make the fact that they're trans invisible - and should it? That's what I'm wondering. Is it wrong to think of people as trans, even when they are?
     
  4. Rickystarr

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    I think it's a valid question given the fact that he had an account on a lesbian dating app. Otherwise it could be rude, but this is a good friend of yours anyway, it's not like you're not allowed to ask questions about the people she dates.

    The main part here that came off as ignorant to me is when you said "so are they trans or a dude?" As if being trans would make him not a dude.
     
    #4 Rickystarr, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  5. YeahpIdk

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    I actually think I said are they a trans dude or just a dude. I call everyone dude, lol. Definitely don't think that a trans guy is not a guy.
     
  6. Kal

    Kal
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    Ultimately, it depends on the person. I'm a man but I am transgender to get there. If someone asked me if I'm transgender, I'd be offended that they'd reduced my identity to one they could simplify and understand on a binary level. I stand by my point that decorum should be upheld, regardless of relationship status. If someone is inviting the question, fine.
     
  7. YeahpIdk

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    Yeah, no. I see your point. I guess continuing to say him felt like one, especially in regard to the app. That's really all it was, because the app is geared toward women who are looking for women. So it felt a little distorted to say there was a he on it - because I immediately wondered if it was a biological male who was genderqueer or something.

    I can't deny that I've got some language to work on, and I think always seeing that people label themselves on here as trans makes it seem like that is how trans men and women identify. I also watch Gigi Gorgeous on YouTube and she says she's transgender. So I didn't think it was a bad thing to ask, my friend privately. I don't ever reduce someone to their gender/sexual orientation and/or identity.

    I still think she was ridiculous and made something out of nothing :slight_smile: :slight_smile: lol.

    Again, thanks.
     
  8. Kasey

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    This is one of the biggest problems I see about trans guys. People usually assume they are a butch lesbian. I so want to call many people sir but I can't do it because they might not be trans. It's a weird double standard about female bodied people.
     
  9. YeahpIdk

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    Well, that's another thing. There's such a large spectrum that I was kind of excited to follow up with questions like, "are they more femme or masculine?" Like, things that I would think are normal questions to ask your friend to get a picture of who they went on a date with. Just like if someone describes someone's hair and eye color.

    Ruby Rose doesn't identify as trans but feels more male than female. One of my fav YouTubers was dating a trans man who presented androgynous and was keeping their biologically female body. And then there are trans men who are very masculine/Gigi Gorgeous who's more Of a girl than I'll ever be - yaddah yaddah. I was just trying to get a picture of them, but became curious if it's wrong to ask since my friend made it seem like a dumb/bad to ask and should have been obvious or non essential. And again, it is so not essential but was confusing when said with the lesbian app. If she didn't want me to question this person's gender or know anything at all about their gender, I don't see why they even had to mention that they were met on a lesbian app. Then just say I went on a date with this guy. Idk.

    This is really just starting to sound more like we have a shitty friendship than anything else, lol. Because this would be offensive and rude to ask just anyone, but also, I like some of what Kal said and will keep it in mind.
     
  10. BrookeVL

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    I think it depends on the situation. It sounds like she's a good friend, and a you and her(at least in your mind) are close enough to be able to ask a question like that, which seems to be behind your being upset over her reaction. Correct?

    I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time I'd be a bit upset if someone outed me to someone I don't know, regardless of their relationship to that person. I want to be stealth as much as possible, but I'm aware that I will have to out myself to people, particularly in the beginning when I'll be going through the legal aspects. I'll have to out myself to perfect strangers, the guy at the DMV when I go to change my license over, for example. But I'd still be miffed if I was outed, or forced to out myself, to a perfect stranger that has no need to know or I don't have to tell.

    If someone asks "Hey, can I tell so and so? They'll be cool, I trust them, and it's making things awkward because I feel I can't talk openly about our dates with one of my closest friends." Or something like that, I'd be cool.

    My family needs to know, for obvious reasons as do my current friends and co-workers. However once my name is legally Brooke Victoria Lexa ____, my documents reflect that, and I'm passing it's no longer something I feel the need to tell a new employer, random acquaintances from school or co-workers, and those who are not immediately in my circle. The only new people at that point who need to know upon first meeting would be a person I'm going on a date with, such as those found on an app, and if switch doctors. I'd hate for a co-worker who's a good friend, and I have told, to blab it to another co-worker they're close with, and who I was stealth to and wished to remain that way. At least not without asking me if it's okay first.

    I'll be pretty open up front with romantic interests. It won't be the very first thing I tell them, but it'll be pretty early on. Definitely before our first date. I'm not going to waste his/her time, nor my own.

    In short, I don't think you were wrong to ask, but I think it's a bit selfish to get upset over your friends answer. You put her in a spot where it's either lie to a good friend or give up info about another person that may not be something they want shared.
     
  11. YeahpIdk

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    Yeah, I didn't really think of that being a possibility. Mostly because I'll probably never meet this person. I see there are a million reasons not to ask this question. I'm glad I consulted about it because obviously I was laxed in a way that was ignorant. Which I do not wish to be. Ever!

    It really was the confusion over the app in the end. And I guess a part of me thought being "trans" was a part of the trans identity. As in, people identify as trans man or trans woman -- even though I always, always just think of people as what they identify with. So, would always just think man/him instead of trans man. So maybe I also get a vocab lesson. Lol.

    Thanks:slight_smile: And sorry if I was offensive at all.
     
  12. Kal

    Kal
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    Fair play for wanting to ask the community.
     
  13. darkcomesoon

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    In most cases, yes, it is offensive, but I think in this case it was okay, only because whether or not he's trans is directly relevant to why he's on a lesbian dating app and because if it's stated on his profile, it can be assumed he's very open about the fact that he's trans.

    In general, don't ask. There are very few situations where you actually need to know if someone's trans. If you're their doctor, it's important. If you're going to sleep with them, it's important. If you're just curious, keep it to yourself. If a trans person want you to know they're trans, they can tell you themself. If the guy was trans and wasn't very open about it, it would be really inappropriate for your friend to out him to you without his permission. If you were to ask him directly, it would be a really uncomfortable, and probably dysphoria-inducing, question for him.
    Basically, only ask if you have a real reason to need or want to know. If you need to know, you can ask them directly. If you have a reason to want to know (like wondering why they're on a dating app), you can ask a friend but only if you're confident the person is completely open about being trans.
     
    #13 darkcomesoon, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  14. YeahpIdk

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    Yeah, again, I would never ever ask someone directly if they were trans. Ever. Under any circumstance. Even if we were going to get physical. I imagine, or hope, they'd tell me/I'd know because of other reasons that they make more obvious.
     
  15. BrookeVL

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    If you're getting physical, and they're pre-op, they probably should have mentioned it. If you have to ask at that point, there's something wrong. Post-op is a bit different. Obviously I'd tell an actual partner I'm in a relationship with, but if I'm just hooking up, not so much. If I have a good, proper looking, functional vulva just like that of a cis woman, a one night stand doesn't really need to know I wasn't born with it....
     
  16. Foxfeather

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    It can actually be life-threatening if asked in the wrong setting, so just by going off of that, yes, sometimes we feel safer not to be asked that. I appreciate it when I'm asked by someone who clearly is LGBTQ or supports us, but I immediately go on defensive mode if asked by someone I read as straight and cis. I'm sorry but the danger is always present and we sometimes feel the need to defend and protect ourselves. It's a reflex and, really, we appreciate the curiosity and the questions if they come from a good heart and with good intentions, but we can't tell that immediately. Don't get offended.
     
  17. anthracite

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    Do you know what you are asking for? This piece of data can get people killed. If you asked me or a friend of mine reported that you asked I would probably do a preemptive strike on your reputation so I can make you look like you were a case for an asylum if you cared to pursue this thing...

    Seriously I'd be less scared if you came at me with a clown mask and a knife in your hands.
     
  18. Kal

    Kal
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    Depends on the country. In the U.K. for example, I've dressed as a man for 6 years and never received so much as a crossed word. However, I'm almost 30 and mix in middle class circles for the most part. Apart from the gym I go to which is very spit and sawdust, but again, nobody cares. I'd imagine other countries may not be as tolerant.
     
  19. Sebby45

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    Personally, I would be mortified. With probably major dysphoria afterwards. It is quite forward to walk up to someone and ask if they are gay or lesbian or trans. It isn't anybody's business.

    Being in a relationship is different. But just asking people is pretty rude.
    And potentially risky, as Foxfeather and anthracite put it.
     
  20. YeahpIdk

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    So, I'm not going to respond to the last few posts. I got the answer to my actual question, and now people are maybe commenting in regard solely to the title of the article (which I see was a little too general) even though I've - more than once - said that I would never go up to a person and ask them that question, so it's clear that recent commenters aren't reading my actual post.

    However, I do think it's important for people to say why this would be a huge problem if someone actually did ever decide to ignorantly go up to a person and ask them if they're trans -- but I'm detaching myself from and making it clear that the last few comments are out of touch with my initial post, because I never, ever implied asking a person if they're trans, but was talking about a confrontation with my friend over a confusing statement after they went on a date with someone and answered me back in a way that made me have to evaluate overstepping a boundary/understanding the attachment of the word trans to people in the trans community - which I understand better now. So carry on, but the last few posts are going off topic from the actual post.