I posted in my Coming out to my husband thread about our counseling session. But it has been a couple of days and of course non-stop thinking. The counselor thinks we can make a MOM work. Why? I know my husband wants to stay married, and I value our relationship. I guess when I made the appt I just assumed he would tell my husband we needed to get divorced and that would help him adjust, kind of taking some of the guilt off me. I don't know what to do with this. So my question is because it is my husband that paid for the appt and his insurance, could counselors be biased by the paying party? I will be asking my own counselor what she thinks. I am just confused as to how we would make this work unless the counselor is thinking open marriage which was not addressed. I don't even know if I would be okay with an open marriage. I don't think so. I am to much of a commitment person. Any ideas how a mom can work?
By MOM, I'm going to assume you mean "mixed orientation marriage". This answer is based on that. To answer your question: Couples counseling is among the hardest of all types of counseling for the therapist to do well. One of the most complex issues for any therapist is keeping their own judgments, feelings, values, and opinions out of the therapy room. Unfortunately, many couples counselors, while they were all trained in this, fail to truly understand, embrace, and embody this. No therapist succeeds in doing this 100% of the time, but good counselors know where their biases and blind spots are, actively work to understand where those issues are creeping into their work with clients, and do their best to avoid bringing their own "stuff" into the therapy room. There's really no place for them if the therapist is to do a good job; it is his or her role to work, in a neutral and unbiased way, with the clients, find out what they want, help them to find whatever common ground exists, and help the two people to mutually come to an understanding, whether that understanding is to stay together or to separate. This should in no way be influenced by who is paying the bill, but the reality is, couples counselors do often find themselves seeing the viewpoint of one person over the other. Good ones will recognize this and adjust their thinking and strategy to be as neutral as possible, however, many either don't get the importance of this, or aren't good at practicing it. The reality is, it's not generally practical or healthy, except in unusual circumstances, for a married couple to stay together once one of them realizes s/he is gay or lesbian. It isn't particularly fair to either party, and setting up open marriage situations generally just leads to complications; if one or the other starts to get into a serious relationship, it messes with the existing marriage/relationship, unless one is comfortable with a completely nontraditional arrangement, such as a polyamorous relationship, and it would be very unusual for a circumstance like that to come up in this situation. So... my first thought is that if the therapist has set this (a successful mixed-orientation marriage) as his agenda or goal, that's a problem. What he should be focusing on for the first couple of sessions is what each of you want, and if you decide you want to end the marriage, exploring with your husband what that looks and feels like, and perhaps exploring with you what it might look like to try to maintain the marriage. Then, once the two of you come to terms on what the goals of the counseling are, the work comes in, either of discussing and negotiating the terms of the new relationship, or in what's involved in ending the relationship and preparing each of you for life after the marriage. Increasingly, I find there are a lot of well meaning but not terribly competent therapists out there. If you don't feel a connection to this one, there's no reason you can't try a couple of others until you find one that both you and your husband connect with.
Chip laid it out professionally. Mixed orientation marriage is an interesting concept, but the only way I see that working is if you identified as bi or queer. I want to say it's unprofessional that the counselor even proposed you two being able to work it out if you made it clear you are gay. How can one work out their marriage with a man if they cannot romantically and physically connect with them? And how is that fair or fulfilling to either party? Therapists can definitely be biased, because they're human - but like Chip said, should be able to recognize it and turn it off. These are people who have to deal with personalities and emotional issues. If they don't have the ability to go deep and be analytical with emotions while being completely aware, they're in the wrong field. It's certainly not a job for everyone. I've definitely met therapists who don't seem like they should be doing what they're doing. Something I like to remember when I'm looking for one is that being a therapist is a job some people have. And like any person who has a job, they can be bad at it. I'd definitely vote for finding someone else.
I think it all depends on how you approach the appointment; my soon to be ex and I signed up for counselling when we were thinking of staying together, but by the time the sessions started, we'd already decided on separation. The conversation we had in our initial interview put a very positive spin on making it work, but because our intentions were stated in a different light at the first appointment, the focus was on adjusting to separation/divorce. I think that if you want the therapist to give you the space to work through the possibility of separation you need to very directly state it. I understand you're still on the fence, but that's the only way way to work through that issue in that way, from my perspective. Is there a part of you that want some to make it work? If you do, the best I can gunk of is an open marriage. It was the only thing I thought might work if I stayed with my ex. ---------- Post added 23rd Jan 2017 at 01:49 AM ---------- *wants; think of
Truth be told, it's not that I want the marriage to work. I really thought it would be a way for me to have someone else open my husband's eyes to divorce thereby eliminating a huge fight. I even made sure I found a male therapist who is gay. I thought that would definitely make it easier. I guess I just assumed a male gay therapist would definitely tell my husband we needed to divorce. Btw, my husband doesn't know the therapist is gay, but I knew he wouldn't be comfortable with a female therapist as I have already came out to him and figured that would just bother him. In session, I was honest with everything even how I came out to my husband asking if he was gay. No, I didn't say point blank I want a divorce nor did I say I wanted to stay together. He asked my husband who said he wanted to stay married. I responded by saying I just don't see how that can work. To which the therapist said he would normally in these cases suggest divorce, but thinks we could make a mixed orientation marriage work. I mean I thought I had everything planned out right, but then the therapist throws this out there and I am like what??
That sounds really frustrating. I would speak to that therapist and ask what the hell that was all about. Then find a new one. Don't be afraid to find a woman. Have you checked out Psychologytoday.com? You can google, "LGBTQ therapists" or, "LGBTQ friendly therapists Psychology Today." A bunch of therapists meeting this criteria will come up with their other specialties, like marriage counseling. Apologies if you already do this, but just in case, don't be afraid to call a bunch, get a feel for them, and ask if they will do a free consultation either by phone or in person. This way you can meet with them, and I'd recommend doing it by yourself for the first time, even first few, and discuss how you want things to go. The way you're feeling is definitely valid. It's really rude and awkward that the therapist, especially because they're gay, side tracked and said what they did. It really doesn't make sense. Don't let this one stop you from moving forward.
Maybe I'm missing something? Why should the therapist do your dirty work for you? If you want a divorce your husband deserves to hear it directly from you. The therapist is more facilitator than messenger. And even if that weren't true you are not being clear. Saying "I don't see how it can work" is ambiguous. What he may be hearing is one person definitely wants it to work and the other does too but is unsure how it can work. Use those words and let your husband have the argument and experience the emotions he needs to have.
That's where I found this counselor...lol. You are absolutely correct. That is part of the reason I am seeing my own counselor. I can't make myself say that. I want to. I know I should. I already have gone through the 'biblical' struggle of being lesbian. It's just all to much. I know it's f**ked up. I am f**ked up. My counselor says it is part of combating the conversion therapy I went through when young. So this was my way of removing that obstacle and it failed.
(*hug*) It takes a lot of strength to see it through, but you are doing the right thing, and in the end it will be worth it. I trust that, if the therapist is actually good, after more sessions you will find the strength and the correct way to say what needs to be said. He does not have the magic wand to make this happen over night, and often we realize that what we needed help with all along was not related to the agenda of issues that we had in our head when we entered therapy. (&&&)
I'm now wondering if the therapist did that to push you to say what you want, since he can't say it for you. Maybe work on being able to do that, since it's really important right now.
This is possible, but I would rather have had him directly ask you how your husband's response made you feel, and how it coincided with what you want. Good therapists don't put words in people's mouths. What you can do, next session, is open with something like "You know, I've thought about what I want, and as much as I care about my husband, I can't see this working out, and I honestly don't know that I have the energy to try to make it work. I could be open to it, but I think it would be healthier for us to discuss not staying together." This might be really hard, but I agree with the earlier poster that you need to ask for what you need and not expect the therapist to be in your corner. And I think if you can ask for what you need... it's an exercise that's really healthy for you. Hard for your husband to hear, but necessary.
I had another thought about the possibility of bias. Your marriage counselor is gay. He may be worried about making your husband feel like you're ganging up on him. Just a thought.
Anything is possible but a competent therapist wouldn't have that concern. I'm really not sure what is motivating his actions. I would suggest that directly asking (or asking for what you need) is the best strategy.
get in your car and drive around practicing saying the words "It's not going to work. I want a divorce." Keep saying it until it flows out of your mouth without hesitation. Then go home and say it to him.