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Not Transitioning

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Michael, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Michael

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    After a few years, and countless experiences (from funny to... you name it), I came to the conclusion it is best for me not to transition. The main factor here is the medical fact (plus its consequences), which had been also the first and most important factor as I began... (If you can say I began anything at all...)

    I don't regret the experience, or the folks I met. I am convinced my vision of the world, of human beings and gender has been expanded and enriched in so many ways, I can even say I feel proud I 'wasted my time' this way.

    I still don't identify at all with the gender I was born with, mainly because of the expectations associated with the gender, and I will continue to gladly not giving a fuck and doing whatever I want anyways... Sometimes I'll ram shit down, sometimes I'll put a flower on it... And I will keep dreaming with a world without gender, a world where nobody is expected to act, think or feel one way or another just because of the genitals or facial features that the human was born with. In such a world, I am sure Transwomen and Transmen would get the fast and high quality medical care they deserve.

    What a ride...
     
  2. Eveline

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    I'm glad you found a sense of peace and that you are ok. (*hug*)
     
    #2 Eveline, Nov 29, 2016
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  3. Michael

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    TBH, and speaking from my own perspective, I think we all would benefit if we did not insist on defending any of this gender nonsense. I am not talking just about Cis, but also Trans. By creating another extreme, nothing is solved really, you just create a new problem : People will take one flag or another, while the core of the problem will remain, you are just creating new division, violence and discrimination... And the victims will be Trans, not Cis, because the victims are always the (generally poor) minorities. From this idea you can see clearly that every Trans who defends a binary concept of gender is just reinforcing the Cis myth, and not really helping anyone here on the long run, except the ones who always benefit from the rotten myth.
     
  4. anthracite

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    This is why I feel I don't belong in this world. I have to defend tumblr.

    Whoever starts a point has to validate it. By science, not by forced PC. If defending this ends with violence, so be it.
     
  5. BrookeVL

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    I'll have to respectfully disagree. I'm not going to transition for anyone else's benefit, nor to defend a "binary concept of gender." My reasons for transitioning(when the time comes) are because that's what I need to do to be happy and enjoy life. This is about BROOKE, not anyone or anything else.
     
  6. Michael

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    That's fine, some say 'the way it should be, all about yourself', but how did it happen that Brooke ended up in such a situation? Who defended back then the Cis myth? Who help to create the circumstances, the enviroment, the mentality? Most of the ones who were born before Brooke, and some of them were trans.

    What kind of world would you and me have if everyone (including Trans) had been more focused on smashing the binary? You can have both, your own happiness and just doing the right thing. I know it can be quite risky to mention such ideas to your therapist, but why not discussing them openly,and why not giving them a chance?

    If some of you have any educated arguments against it, feel free to post. I think smashing binary would help to create a much better world for both Trans and Cis. Or perhaps you just don't care about this kind of thing, but then don't be surprised that progress is so damned slow.
     
  7. Mihael

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    I'm not transitioning either, but I don't think gender is nonsense. It's not that I want to transition but can't. If gender was nonsense, I wouldn't be having a social problem, because I'm fine and dandy with how I am.
     
  8. SystemGlitch

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    Gender not existing wouldn't change the fact that I'm uncomfortable with my body. It wouldn't change the fact that my sex is wrong. I would still want to alter my body to be happy with it. And if gender didn't exist, then SRS and HRT would probably be seen as pure and simple needless mutilation of your body, and be treated with therapy or drugs to make you "like" your current body instead of treating the dysphoria through SRS/HRT. It'd no doubt be seen in the same light that Body Integrity Disorder is seen. Trans people would not suddenly gain access to SRS and HRT with no difficulties if gender didn't exist.

    I respect your decision to not transition, but don't take out on those who do want to transition. We aren't playing into a binary, we just want to be happy with ourselves and our lives.
     
    #8 SystemGlitch, Dec 1, 2016
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  9. BrookeVL

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    SystemGlitch beat me to it.

    Also, even if making gender not a thing was somehow possible, and would help, even then I'm still transitioning. It's not fair to expect me to be unhappy the rest of my life, not be able to look at myself in the mirror, be disgusted by my birth sex, and possibly be suicidal because it might help a "greater good."
     
  10. Zoe Izumi

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    Go watch StarTrek TNG, there's an episode with a planet that is "without gender" but trans people still exist and are forced to undergo what amounts to conversion therapy to become genderless, not to help them find happiness
     
  11. EverDeer

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    Personally, that's why I simply chose to identify as nonbinary. When I say "chose to", I don't mean that I just wanted to f*ck the system and decide to be a different gender for no reason, but much like you, I know that no matter where I try and fit myself I will still always have dysphoria and always feel how I do...uncomfortable with my assigned gender, uncomfortable with what people call me, and uncomfortable in this society. However, I appear to be a "normal" (but albeit somewhat androgynous) "woman" on the outside, I keep my identity between a few close friends, but mostly I keep my feelings to myself and just try and cope with my dysphoria in mostly private ways. Obviously your decision is respectable to try and cope with your feelings via other outlets...but personally I just found that still trying to convince myself I was okay as a "woman" was just a source of some unnecessary amount of discomfort when I could just take a breath and realize its okay to realize I am closer to neither/both even if other people see me how they want to. Its just, for me I felt like I was being forced into something I wasn't and decided I wasn't going to live thinking there was something wrong with me for not feeling like either gender. If you choose to go about attaining that inner peace differently, that's obviously fine. Just offering my perspective though because I don't see people as trans versus cis... I just see people, and if we happen to have labels, thats great, and if not, thats great too. But I don't think less labels or more labels necessarily equates a certain answer or makes people stop feeling like we do.
     
    #11 EverDeer, Dec 1, 2016
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  12. Michael

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    I agree, that's quite obvious.

    ... Which is your right, as your body belongs to you, and nobody but you should say how or why you do this or that with it... Which is what is going on right now, at so many levels...

    That's where I disagree. What you have described is what is happening right now, not what (could) happen on a world where 'gender' as we know it doesn't exist anymore.
    Right now to apply surgery to certain body parts is only allowed when it comes to 'enhance' or repair whatever you got at birth (who would deny a woman breast surgery?). I have heard of informed consent clinics, but I doubt they will become more affordable or popular on the future, not under the set of 'morals' we are forced to live by.

    We haven't seen or experienced anything but the code I've mentioned, so for us to imagine such a world is not easy. That doesn't mean it must be even worse than right now, and I suspect that the requirements that such a society demands would get over the whole taboo on Trans, and see it for what it is -Not a choice, but something you are born with. Children won't be forced to act the gender they were born with, education won't be as sexist as it is right now, and the parents of those kids won't freak out or disown them. Right now some certain body parts are not seen as your own property, and this is the byproduct of the gender construct : You have been asigned this or that at birth, and the cheapest is to force you to come to terms with it. Those parts are reproductive, they do serve a purpose for 'the greater good', and therefore they are not seen as yours anymore.

    On a world without gender, you end the objectification of those parts. You are seen as what you define yourself to be, which is... Just a person, presenting facts that have been proved by science, not just 'by your destiny'.

    I am trying to discuss here the concept of a society without gender, and how it would affect all of us in general. It is not precisely coffee break material, and no, it is not emotional or moral support, but... It is still interesting.
     
  13. SystemGlitch

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    SRS and HRT would become cosmetic surgeries. Insurance does not cover cosmetic surgeries. Access would not increase, it would decrease, because those surgeries would no longer be deemed medically necessary. The parallels it would begin to have with body integrity disorder (where a person feels like a part of their body shouldn't be there or isn't actually theirs, such as a limb, and generally desires that part of their body to be removed or replaced) or body dysmorphia such as is often experienced by teenagers are undeniable. When you take away gender and reduce everything to merely "I want to surgically alter a major area of my body", support stops. Sure, you could pay for everything out of your own pocket and go down an informed consent route - but that isn't easier. In fact, it's worse. Right now, at least some insurance companies cover trans-related treatments because they are deemed medically necessary - gender identity is something important and gender identity is something that cannot be changed by other treatment methods, and it is seen as a problem with the body and not the mind - therefore you treat the body. If you take gender identity out of the equation, it stops being a problem with the body because there is no solid definable basis for why you feel so at odds with your body. If your sex is meaningless and has no influence on you, then it starts being a problem with perception of your body. They don't treat BID by amputating the offending limbs/altering the offending area of the body - they electrically stimulate areas of the brain. They don't treat body dysmorphia in teenage girls by performing liposuction or giving breast reductions - they give therapy to change how you perceive your body. This exact same thing is all that will happen to body-dysphoric trans people in a society without gender.

    Now, a society without gender biases, that I can get behind. A society where people can like whatever the hell they want and can act in a manner that suits them, so long as they aren't hurting anyone else, is a good society. Where people do not get looked down on for the gender identity that they have or for having a gender identity incongruent with their sex. But actually removing gender will not make society a better place. There will be no place for body-dysphoric people in a genderless society, treatment will be unavailable unless you can shell out thousands of dollars because it will be considered cosmetic rather than medically necessary - like it currently is in most of the world, and people will still consider you to be crazy for wanting to change your body so drastically because of "not liking it" or being uncomfortable with it. I think the focus should be on making a society where gender isn't so heavily regulated, rather than a society without any gender at all.
     
  14. anthracite

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    I think there aren't rules for gender anymore. More like guidelines.
    Do you get punished by the system if you're a women and into IT? Does a man get punished for wearing guyliner? Nothing of this happens. There are a few stupid people, but in my opinion it is awfully close to the standard hater. What we need is a community of people who do what makes themselves happy or decide to disguise in mediocrity, but does not blame anyone else for the consequences of their action.
     
  15. AngieT

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    I disagree. When I transitioned, I did so because one side was incongruent with the other. If none of it matters, why don't we just accept ourselves for who we are and put all gender issues behind us? I transitioned to integrate into the binary system, not to discard it.
     
  16. RainbowGreen

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    Ok, I think you're mixing up a lot of concepts here, because erasing gender would erase us entirely, not help us.

    Sex: Biological signs, including genitals, chromosomes and secondary sex characteristics that determine whether someone is male or female. This can be ambiguous in the case of intersex people or not match with gender identity in the case of trans people. It is usually determined at birth by looking at the genitals because chromosome testing is extremely expensive.

    Gender/gender identity: The brain's perception of how a person is and should identify. Most of the time, it will align with the sex assigned at birth, but it may not. How a person dresses, how they present themselves and what they like is completely irrelevant to gender identity. It cannot be changed, as far as science knows.

    Gender expression: How a person expresses their gender identity. This includes clothing choices, mannerisms, interests and much more. It is completely separated from gender identity.

    Gender roles: How society dictates an individual should act. Commonly, what males and females should respectively do. For example, the stereotype that men should always be tough and not cry while women should be motherly and nurturing. It also dictates how someone should dress and what they should like.

    So, are you sure you don't mean gender roles? Because I could do away with that, honestly. But, my gender is a part of me, and I absolutely refuse to ignore it.
     
  17. BrookeVL

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    I spent almost 30 years ignoring my gender. I wont do it anymore, I refuse. I also refuse to accept that I have to stay a woman trapped in a man's body my whole life. I refuse.

    I'll say it again for the people in the back. I REFUSE!