1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Broaching gender identity with romantic interest

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by CamN15, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. CamN15

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Sorry to post here - this is more to do with relationships, but it is specifically concerning gender identity within that and I feel maybe it will reach members who have had similar experiences by being here? Please tell me to move the post though if it is inappropriate.

    In short, I've finally come to terms with being ftm (instead of violently suppressing it), and have started trying to present more masculinely. However I don't pass very well, and I don't think people around me have noticed... ? Only three of my friends actually know. I think everyone else is still assuming I'm 'female', naturally, because they haven't been told otherwise.

    Anyway...

    A couple of months ago I met someone who I've fallen for pretty hard, I have to admit. It took me by surprise. Sometimes it's difficult to gauge how they feel about me, but over the past couple of weeks I've started picking up on them potentially liking me back, maybe enough to form some kind of strong relationship, even if that is only ever as very very good friends.
    You see, I was worried about telling them about being ftm. I wasn't sure how they'd react.
    But just now on a social media website one of their family members commented on a picture of them, and referred to them as "he/them".
    Now, am I just being super sensitive, or does that suggest that they may be NB? They've never mentioned it to me or anyone else at university, but come to think of it it makes sense.

    I'm wondering whether it's acceptable for me to ask them whether they are NB? I don't want to be nosy, but I feel like if they are NB it will make me feel so much more comfortable about discussing being ftm with them. It would mean not having to explain certain things. They may be open to using my male name with me and correct pronouns, and it not feel weird.

    It's just the difference sometimes between people being sensitive to pronouns or not... I'm always so careful with pronouns when talking to/about my close NB friend, where some people just completely ignore the fact that they are NB and use 'she'. It upsets me. Part of me knows I'm so sensitive because I'm sensitive about my own pronouns. And so I feel like someone who is NB may be more understanding of pronouns, and will be careful with them. I mean, obviously I know there are awesome cis-gender people who are super super careful with pronouns, and equally some folk no matter their gender identity can be careless. But as a general rule, from my encounters, I find that the people who have been the most respectful about correct pronouns do identify somewhere on the trans spectrum OR are very close to someone who does. Sorry, that became rambly, and I didn't mean to cause offence. It's just based on my experiences alone.

    Essentially my main question is, is it rude to ask the person at university whether they are NB? I feel like we are close enough now that such topics could be discussed comfortably, but I'd rather it had come up naturally in conversation before, than it now feel like I'm prying... Yet now I'm curious about it I know that it will probably come up because I'll end up steering the conversation that way, which makes me feel bad.
    Or do you think I should just be brave and come out to them first, and then I suppose they would probably tell me if they are NB then... ?

    I just want to get this conversation out of the way before we progress any further because I currently don't feel very genuine, with them maybe thinking I am 'female'.
     
  2. SystemGlitch

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    When you say this person was referred to as "he/them", what do you mean? Could you maybe clarify with an example of how the status was worded?

    Keep in mind that they is completely neutral and can also be used to refer to cisgender/binary transgender people. I personally use they a lot unless I'm talking about a few different people at the same time, in which case I use gendered pronouns to make it clearer (ie instead of "they said that they wanted ice cream", "she said that he wanted ice cream"). This person being called 'they' doesn't necessarily confirm that they are non-binary.

    As a general rule, I've always seen that it is considered impolite to ask someone about their gender identity unless they tell you first, much like with sexuality. People should be able to come out in their own time and at their own discretion. If they are presenting fully as male and have told no one anything otherwise, it is best to open the door for them and then wait for them to walk through (if they are NB in the first place).

    Something that you could do is come out to them, if you feel comfortable enough with your relationship to do so. That could open the door for them to feel safer coming out to you, if they wished to - though obviously they wouldn't be obligated to and you shouldn't feel offended if they choose not to. Alternatively, you could start a conversation about gender identities and verbalise your support and maybe talk a little about the non-binary friend that you have, which could again open the door for them to feel safer with you and come out.

    To be honest, if you are planning to pursue a relationship with this person, it would be in your best interest to come out to them before you get any further with them. If they are completely unsupportive of trans people, would you really want to be friends with them anyway? And if they are supportive, but are not interested in men/are uncomfortable dating a trans person, it is much better to know that now before your feelings develop any farther. There are ways to explore their opinion of trans people without coming out, as well - as stated above, you could start a conversation about gender identity, and maybe mention whether or not you'd be okay with dating a trans person, and ask them about their opinions of trans people and whether they would be comfortable dating a trans person (specifically a trans man).

    Good luck with everything, I hope this helps!
     
    #2 SystemGlitch, Nov 16, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
  3. CamN15

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    @SystemGlitch, Thank you so much for your reply.

    Yes, sorry, I didn't make it very clear. The way it was worded was their family member kept explicitly writing "he/them".
    For example:
    "We are looking forward to seeing him/them"
    "His/their skill is really improving"

    I know 'they' can be used in all kinds of contexts. It was just because the family member would never just write 'they', or never just write 'he'... They would always put both he/they, or him/them together, separated by a dash, like in the examples. Which is why I thought maybe they might be NB, because their family member was making an obvious effort to write in this way.

    Thank you for all of your advice. I guess I knew deep down it was rude to ask them even when I was writing this post, it's just I'm so scared of telling anyone about myself at the moment and know I'd feel more comfortable if I could be sure they would understand. I mean, I was never going to explicitly ask something like "Are you non binary?", but I was just wondering whether it's ok to kind of steer conversations in a direction that would make it easier for them to come out if that's what they want? I just feel like we've never really discussed this kind of thing before, and it might be a bit strange if I suddenly bring it up one day. I don't want them to panic and feel like I'm prying. That's kind of what I meant by "ask". I mean, I know enough from having people being nosy regarding my sexuality to know better than to full on ask the question bluntly. But I also know I've felt equally threatened when people would hint around it... And that's what I meant. Like, is it ok for me to even try to bring up the topic, even in general? Some part of me will feel bad now whatever I do.
     
  4. SystemGlitch

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    That does make it seem a lot more like they could be nonbinary. That's a pretty odd way for someone to write otherwise.

    Bringing up the topic of the LGBT community wouldn't be bad. You could introduce it in a pretty easy way, as well - bathroom policies. It's a hot issue at the moment, it's not too bizarre to bring it up in conversation. And like I mentioned, you could bring up your nonbinary friend and perhaps mention that genderneutral bathrooms are a good way forward to help NB people feel comfortable as well. I think as long as you aren't directly asking someone and/or quizzing them about their gender, it's okay to let people know you support the LGBT community so that LGBT friends (closeted or not) can feel safer around you. There's no need to feel bad about doing that.
     
  5. Kal

    Kal
    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2015
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Bath
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Out Status:
    A few people
    That reads as non binary after you've expanded on it. If you're friendly enough with this person I'm sure having a conversation on the subject itself wouldn't be out of the ordinary? Maybe bring up a youtuber or whatever to start the convo. You don't have to lead it you can wait for them to decide to engage or not. Even bringing up the subject may show that you are open to conversing about it or even want to lay all the cards on the table. I'd rather be asked how I want to be referred to. But alas, nobody thinks to do that and maybe my struggle in coming out would be made easier. Just not the done thing I guess.
     
  6. CamN15

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    @SystemGlitch, I think I'll do that! There was actually a big thing about the bathroom policies in our uni recently, so I guess it wouldn't be too unusual for that to crop up again. I mean, it has already been discussed so much... I guess I just wasn't tuned in to trying to pick up on their reaction before.

    @Kal, I agree with you! Would love it if people would ask about pronouns more often. I mean, even before really accepting I was ftm whilst I was still deep in the closet I would prefer it for people to use they/them, and had changed all my pronouns to neutral ones on social media websites. She/her just feel so wrong. Yet people keep using them because they've been conditioned to.
    I know it's changing though. Some people I know in a different uni introduce themselves by name and pronoun within certain societies in that uni. I think it's a brilliant idea :slight_smile: I'm hoping to run as a rep for our lgbt society next year, and if I'm successful I'm going to try to really push for more support with gender identity. At the moment there's a heavy focus on just the sexuality side of things...