(any Ben Folds fans? :icon_wink) Sometimes I wonder if my major problem is that I've fallen out of love. Not just the spark, that energetic excitement and passion from a new relationship, but something much deeper. That I'd rather be alone at night, that I don't look forward to sharing my day with him. We're happiest when we're hanging out with our kids. When alone together, I enjoy watching TV with him but much else feels forced. This has been going on for years. We are amazing parents. We're leaders in our kids activities, we teach them, read to them, play with them. They are the center of our home life, and they are thriving. Intelligent, happy, and so very kind. Really, I think we are raising some good people. It seems so selfish to rock that boat. Trading the happiness of several innocent people for my own. Can we still be a happy family if my husband and I separate? This whole sexuality question is new for me, but the idea that I'm not very happy in my marriage is not. I just feel so ashamed. He's a fantastic man. Really, really one of the good ones. And he loves me. Why don't I want him???? Why can't I make myself want him???? Aggghhh!! I know you'll all say that I'm not being fair to him, by tying him down when I don't love him fully. I've said this to him multiple times over the years. He knows how I feel, that I'm not sure I'm in love but that I value him and care for him deeply. He just keeps saying that it doesn't change anything, he just wants me to be happy with him. He loves me, he loves the connection we have, he loves our family. He does not want me to leave. I keep telling him that I don't want to leave, but I know that it's because I'm just afraid. Afraid of being alone. Afraid of breaking a very very very comfortable and good life for the possibility of falling passionately in love with someone else. What if I break up our family and never find someone again? What a waste! He's a great catch, I know he'll find someone else. And then I'll have wrecked it all for nothing. I just see myself, alone, in a crappy apartment, ten years from now, my kids with him and his new, young, beautiful wife. Someone his family of origin likes more. Someone my kids, perhaps, like more. Maybe that's the better ending anyway. If they'd all be happier without me. I have therapy this evening, so that's a good thing. I'm just feeling pretty down right now. Trapped and hopeless.
Ai, I recognise this feeling so well. I went through this with my ex-hubby. He is a fantastic man. We are still friends. But ultimately our relationship was always that. We were fantastic friends. I couldn't go back once I admitted to myself that our relationship wasn't what it should be. My ex always 'wanted me to be happy'. The fact that I never truly was put a strain on our relationship. For my part, there was always this constant low-grade pressure to be 'happy' because he was trying so hard. Because he loved me so very much. But ultimately, I had to admit to myself I was never going to 'be happy' in our marriage. Now, in fairness, it's not like once we divorced and I was able to live as an out gay woman that suddenly everything was peachy keen and I was happy and fulfilled. There is still a lot to be dealt with. I'm not sure 'happiness' in the classical sense is even something I aspire to (see this oatmeal cartoon to see what I mean: How to be perfectly unhappy - The Oatmeal) But I am certain that leaving him was the correct (and really only) choice. I do not for a second regret it. Even though we were (still are though it's changed shape) best friends. But maybe he finds someone who loves him the way he loves you... It is very scary taking that step. The security of marriage and family, the certainty that someone has always got your back is a hell of a thing to trade for uncertainty and solitude. Only you know whether that decision is the right one. It's really hard processing your fears of how other people will deal with it, I know.Again, all I can offer is a comparison from someone on the other side (Though disclaimer: We never had kids). But my old in-laws still want to see me. They don't hate me like I thought they would. My own family has adjusted. Ultimately, I'm always delighted when I hear my ex is dating someone. I want him to be happy, like he always wanted me to be. I know I haven't offered much in the way of advice here, but hopefully some info from 'the other side' is a useful second best. Feel free to message me if you ever want to chat about this with someone. (*hug*) FoxSong
I'm not sure how things will end up with my husband if we separate. He keeps saying things like: "If you leave, I'll just take a job in another state and live alone." "I'll just live in a crappy apartment, feed the kids spaghetti-o's when they come on the weekends, and they'll be disgusted with me." "I'm cold, unemotional and unlovable. I'll be alone without you." I feel like I'm breaking him and he did nothing wrong. On the other hand, I feel like he's kind of emotionally blackmailing me. He knows that I don't want to raise the kids without him, that he's an essential part of their lives in all ways - emotionally, physically, logistically - and that it would be a massive detriment if he dropped out of parenting. There's a part of me that feels like he's holding that over my head - that things *will get worse* for the kids and me if I leave, simply because he won't be as involved because it'll be too hard for him emotionally to be my ally and friend. We're both afraid of leaving each other because we don't think we'll find love again. The difference is that he's satisfied with our level of connection and intimacy, and I'm just not. The situation just makes me feel depressed and trapped, like the "bad guy" who is only seeing negatives when life could be wonderful if I just changed my mindset. I'm willing to keep trying. Mindfulness meditation is helping. Therapy where I'm finally dealing with some of my demons from childhood is helping. It's just that I've been working at this for *so long* and it's just draining me. When I began questioning my sexuality, it seemed like everything was falling into place. This is why I'm having trouble with attraction, why I feel so different, why it seems like I'm living my life through a veil. This very well might be my issue, but I have a lot of other stuff to work through first. He doesn't seem to want to seek therapy since I'm the one who's unhappy, but I'm a little tired of pulling all the emotional weight. The way he sees it - I'm the upset one, so I need to do the research and legwork to fix it.
Wow, are you reading my mind? I feel exactly the same way...though I think I have more relationship baggage. I've been with my husband for almost 20 years. We have 3 kids, who are all under 12. I completely understand about feeling afraid to "throw it all away" for an uncertain future. But for at least the last 5 years, I can't really imagine any future here regardless. We have been pretty emotionally cut off from each other for a long time, in his mind, it's because of my lack of physical validation for him...and in my mind, it's because I haven't felt any emotional connection. Chicken or egg? I really don't know. But I do know that women have been my emotional constants in my life. All my friends, and true support system are women. All the men in my life have been emotionally distant or unpredictable...not abusive or anything, just absent. And I've always felt sexual attraction for women. But now we're working on our relationship issues, and I wonder if I will ever find that "attraction" again for him...or if it will never come, even if we fix the other stuff. And, like you, the stakes are so very high. I'm also afraid of messing up my kids lives, or yanking all stability out from under them. Of making them move back and forth between us, and of being alone, lonely and lost. So, I definitely hear exactly where you're coming from. Sorry I can't help you with any decisions, but I can certainly tell you that others feel the same way.
Well, he either is or he isn't trying to emotionally blackmail you, but it isn't fair to say you feel that he is, because how do you prove or disprove that? For example, if you tell him "I feel you are emotionally blackmailing me" and he isn't then you are criticizing him for something he isn't doing which would be manipulative on your part. Now maybe that's not what you meant by the word "feel", but I know from my own life experience I'm guilty of using my feelings as evidence to be manipulative, and I've been on the receiving end of manipulation based on the same ideas. So if you are trying to talk with someone and they ignore you, walk away, don't pay full attention when you say you want to talk about something important, etc then you wouldn't have to say to them "I feel like you don't listen". You could just say "Im feeling frustrated right now" "I asked for your attention and you ignored me by leaving the room." When I started telling people how I actually feel in the moment instead of jumping around to stuff that doesn't matter or trying to morally position myself I found that I left arguments without that horrible pit of anger that no one can see me for me. Having said all of that I think your husband is probably just comfortable in the relationship, but based on his words it doesn't sound like his world revolves around you. It kind of sounds from everything I've heard you say that your relationship hasn't been the best for a while.
Before we separated, my husband was saying similar things, which I interpreted as emotional blackmail too, borne out of his desperation. He'd tried appealing to my feelings, and when that didn't work, this was his last desperate shot. I felt at the time like he was trying to make me feel both anxious and guilty, but on later reflection it could just be that he was projecting his own fears onto me. It started with "You may never find somebody else". When I acknowledged that was the case, but I felt compelled to give it a try, he then changed to "I will find somebody else a lot easier than you will, and I will move to live with them and you and B (our son) won't see me", followed later by "I don't think I'll ever be able to trust anyone ever again after what you've done to me". His thoughts and feelings were changing on an almost daily basis, and you may find this happens with your husband too, as his emotions swing wildly. Later when it became clear that he wanted to stay in the house, and that our son wanted to stay with him to minimise the amount of change (he is on the autism spectrum and doesn't cope well with any kind of change), the comments changed to "You will lose touch with B, that is always the case when somebody moves out". We had experienced problems with sex ever since we were married, with him always saying I never wanted it enough, yet all of a sudden he was saying "We can still live together as friends", which was definitely a sign of desperation. Yet the more he said these things, it made me feel very sorry for him, and very guilty, but I liked him less as I felt the underlying hostility, so I think in the end it actually heightened my resolve to leave. Sorry that, one year down the line, I can't offer anything more helpful than "this would appear to be normal".
Fair enough. I appreciate you calling me out on my language, and I know that I have a history of using my feelings as a way to criticize his behavior. "I feel like you don't care about me," "I feel like you're not taking me seriously," etc etc. I never thought of that as being manipulative, but I guess it is. How can he prove if he cares? If he's taking me seriously? Something to think about, indeed. Our relationship has been challenging for a while, yes, but it hasn't been bad. We care about each other and our children, deeply, and we are both willing to put in a lot of work to make our marriage stay solid. This sexuality question has thrown a wrench in everything because my husband feels out of control of the situation. He keeps saying that the way we handle this is up to me, and I keep saying that it's not completely true because I don't want to do things within the marriage that make him uncomfortable. Is that an ultimatum? Let me explore my sexuality or I will divorce you? I'm not saying that explicitly, but is it what I mean in the end? I know I can't go on feeling this way forever without doing something about it. I can't see spending the rest of my life without experiencing passion and attraction in a relationship. I keep telling him that he needs to find a therapist, because I can't be the only person that he talks to about this. He's found some mixed-orientation-marriage support groups and straight spouse networks online and he's finally joined those, so hopefully that will help. I'm worried that I'm taking advantage of him. I know that he loves me and is willing to do anything to keep me, including letting me date and sleep with women. It just doesn't seem fair, and I don't think I can do it unless he has someone on his side to talk with. It would be easier if he wanted to date as well, but he has no interest in that. Aren't I just setting up a power imbalance if I'm allowed to date and he chooses not to?
It's horrible that he's using your children this way. I agree that he is emotionally blackmailing you. You are fretting over what might happen and allowing that fear and uncertainty paralyze you. I suggest that you start identifying potential divorce attorneys and then arrange a consultation with 1 or 2 so that you can get educated about the laws governing child custody in your state. Armed with facts, you can begin to make informed decisions and have more constructive conversations with your husband. It's not your fault that you are gay. You've done nothing wrong. This is how you were born. You've taken very important first steps of starting the questioning process. Try not to discount yourself or your feelings, which are very real and valid. This is a crisis in the relationship, and the fact that he's not stepping up is disconcerting. I would use this as an opportunity to be even more selfish/assertive and start discussions about opening the relationship or even separating, which just might convince him that you are serious about this. You may even find his attitude about therapy could change once he starts thinking you are serious. The process will force you to be more assertive about what you want. It sounds like this doesn't always come naturally for you. Try to fake it until you make it. As you become increasingly assertive, it will get easier.
Yeah, I pointed out your behavior because I'm guilty of the same thing. It's a trap that is easy to fall into. It's a really easy way to "be in the right" in an argument because the person you are arguing against can't really defend against an unprovable claim. I think it is also a sign of an unhealthy relationship to be manipulative because what healthy relationship based on ideas like trust and communication requires accusations that can't be proven? Just imagine asking someone to please listen to your concerns for a few minutes, and while you talk they keep eye contact, verbally indicate they are listening to you but mostly remain silent and let you talk, and then after you have finished they ask you questions to clarify things they might not understand, or gauge your emotional state in order to give you advice or support. You probably wouldn't leave that interaction feeling like crap. There would be no need to try and morally position yourself and you wouldn't feel frustrated or think that you weren't listened to, or that you aren't getting what you want from the relationship. A relationship is about two people building each other up. It doesn't mean you don't disagree or like everything the other person is doing, but it does mean that your aren't constantly tearing each other down, whether intentionally or not. As for you relationship with your husband I think it is easier to leave a relationship with someone when you don't have kids together. You are just two adults engaging in a voluntary commitment that can be over at any time. But with kids even if you left him you would still be connected through them. It's worse for them though because they didn't chose you as parents. Answer this question: "What is your primary motivation for staying with him?" There will undoubtedly be several things that pop into your mind but they aren't all your number one priority. If you are struggling to make your relationship with him work, what is the end goal and how are you going to achieve it? Where do you want to be in regards to this relationship in five years? To answer your last questions I think if you were dating other people and he wasn't because he chose not to, well, that's his choice, but then it becomes hard for him to justify getting angry at you if you do. Are you taking advantage of him? Well, if you are going to stay married to him and receive the benefits of being married while also dating other people and receiving the benefits of having sex with other people then it does look that way. If you were just married, or just dating that wouldn't even really be a question in your mind. (Assuming you weren't purposefully dating someone to use their car or something, then that would be taking advantage of them) Having said that I mentioned that a relationship is about building each other up. Him agreeing to let you date women could be his way of using your sexuality against you. Because why doesn't he just break up with you if you are telling him that you want more than what he can offer? Why should he get the benefits of being married if he is saying he is okay with you dating other people? So, you might be using him, but he isn't exactly innocent either.
Fake it until you make it...sounds like my sex life for the past fifteen years. So, my husband found this site and my username on my laptop and looked up my postings on his phone. I found out because I looked at his phone in the bathroom after he started emotionally closing off to me. I don't know what I was expecting to find, but I was very surprised to see that he was reading my posts under an incognito tab that he left open. We were both wrong and clearly we don't trust each other. He said that he felt like an asshole for looking up what I was writing because it's clear that I'm trying to work things out. He's said that he won't look at the site anymore and for some reason I trust him. Perhaps that's naive. We don't want to get divorced. We want to raise our kids together. We are awesome parents and it sucks to f-up their lives just because we have marital problems. Last night we watched the debate together and were able to just talk about the insanity of our country without thinking about ourselves. It felt very comfortable. It was the kind of night that makes me think I should just shut up and keep up the friend part of our relationship and give him occasional sex to make him happy. This is so unhealthy, I know. It was an awful weekend otherwise, full of tears and passive aggression. The only good times were playing with our kids at the park. They are so beautiful and innocent, and they love both of us so much. Why can't I just stuff this back into a box for their sake? I'm trying to schedule an emergency appt with my therapist this week, and I'm going to ask for suggestions of therapists for him. He's agreed to see one, it's just going to be hard to find another LGBT friendly one in our area. We'll see. I don't want to see a divorce attorney yet, in my mind that's admitting defeat.
I was suggesting that you seek a divorce attorney as preparation and education about custody, not necessarily pulling the trigger, since your husband was threatening to abandon you and the kids. This is smart preparation, not admitting defeat. Trying to stay together for the sake of the kids can be as bad if not worse than separating, especially if unresolved issues bleed through. You might want to ask your therapist his or her take on this. Unfortunately you cannot wish the genie back in the bottle. As someone who has faced the same questions and doubts as you face today, all I can say is that there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Your struggles to fight for your own authenticity will be worth it once you can live authentically in the arms of another woman.
Your posts always sound so familiar to me. I have such similar feelings and rationales when it comes to my relationship with my husband and my fear of leaving because I love the way we're raising our kids together-we're a great team in that regard. I vacillate between wondering what is more selfish, telling him or not telling him?; leaving or staying?; etc. Inside I think I know the answers, but all the options feel selfish and I realize that's not right either.
