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do you believe SJWs can seriously harm LGBT people?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Cinis, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. Cinis

    Cinis Guest

    In the public eye that is, not by being insufferable. I've seen quite some people stating that there's more homo and transphobia nowadays due to the negative pictures some SJWs are painting of LGBT People (like "die cis scum"etc.) while other's said that SJWs are not nearly public enough to be heared by anyone that isn't interested in such things ie. the LGBT community.
    So what's your opinion on this, do some People really see SJWs as representatives of all LGBT Folks? How harmful is what they are doing? What is your opinion on SJWs in general?

    :thewave:
     
  2. Secrets5

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    Let's just SJWs keep to their minority and not make those hateful comments acceptable.

    And yes, there have been times I have just wanted to be non-binary agender bisexual but not a part of LGBT due to these people. I want to distance myself as far away from them; they're doing no good.
     
    #2 Secrets5, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  3. iiimee

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    XD Well, the first question I get now when I say I'm trans and that I go to the super, super liberal school I go to is "You're not an SJW, are you?" -_- No... No, I am not. I think that those who are interested in politics even slightly might draw comparisons between normal trans people and SJWs where there are none. I know most are, but I'm just going to put it out there: Being trans does NOT make you liberal- it doesn't even make you pro-LGB. Being trans just makes you trans... That's it...
     
  4. Creativemind

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    I think they can. It's not just straight people they are offending, but other LGBT people.

    For example, as a lesbian I have been told by bisexuals that I'm a dirty monosexual or that sexuality is fluid so when will I fuck men already? Trans people call me transphobic for not liking penises and send me death threats.

    This is not all bi/trans people as a whole, I'm specifically talking about SJW types.

    A lot of lesbians have already taken to radical feminist groups and have become legit transphobic despite not feeling that way before because of all of the death threats.

    I'm not sure if gay men, bisexuals, and trans people face similar hate, but I'm purely speaking of my own experiences.

    Let's not alienate the community.

    And no not all LGBT people are SJWs, thank god.
     
    #4 Creativemind, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  5. faustian1

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    This is pretty basic, but it's 6:50 in the morning here on the west coast.

    What is an SJW?
     
  6. gibson234

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    LGBT people biggest threat from SJWs is their defence of Islam. If you call out Islam for being homophobic they can call you Islamophobic. Meaning that as far as they are concerned Muslims right to be homophobic is more important than LGBT person's right to not receive homophobia. This inability to call Muslims out for their homophobia is a big threat to gay people especially gay people who live in Muslim families.
     
  7. Gunsmoke

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    Yeah, that's why I distance myself from the LGBTQ community, at least on Tumblr. They give all of us rational people a bad name.

    ---------- Post added 25th Sep 2016 at 06:08 AM ----------

    It stands for "social justice warrior" and they're basically the man-hating, white-hating, straight-hating etc extremists that you can find on the internet. Tumblr is like, their hive, I think. They mostly just use the word "problematic" a lot.
     
    #7 Gunsmoke, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  8. OGS

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    I guess it may just be because I'm old but I just don't think Tumblr matters that much so I guess I would go with no. I'm actually more concerned with the number of gay people online who seem genuinely opposed to discussing matters of social justice at all.
     
  9. faustian1

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    Thank you for that clarification!

    Oh, I know them. I'm not a tumblr guy, but if you mean the white people who live in the segregated suburbs who will lecture me about race all day long, then I can relate.

    In my brand of progressive politics, education and persuasion ideally should prevail over dogma. I've seen rational discourse work miracles. In fact, the transition of public opinion regarding same-sex marriage is a prime example of this process.
     
  10. Gunsmoke

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    No problem!

    Eh, you're saving yourself a lot of hassle in that respect. (Honestly I kind of hate the site, but where else am I supposed to find shitposts at 3am?)

    On one hand I like to think that a) Tumblr stays confined to the internet, and b) they'll all grow up in a few years and stop being so extreme, but I don't know. Some of the ideals that they spread are extremely harmful and toxic and they do occasionally carry over to real life: I'm worried that "occasionally" may become "often".

    Like, on Tumblr I'd probably be considered kind of conservative (because I don't support racial segregation or giving LGBTQ students extra funding at university just because of their sexual orientation and/or non-cisgenderness) but in real life I'm pretty liberal. Sometimes I'll tell somebody that I'm a feminist and they'll look at me like I'm insane and I'm all "no, not that kind of feminist!".

    Just to clarify, I am talking about SJWs here, I just use Tumblr as an example because that seems to be where most of them are.
     
    #10 Gunsmoke, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  11. kibou97

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    I tend to try and ignore their existence because of how rude and out of hand they can become. They don't even realize that what they're doing constantly treating people who don't agree with them like crap is the exact same thing they're against and only makes things worse. I luckily don't use tumblr except for a few specific purposes but luckily none of those normally lead me to the sjws of tumblr.
     
    #11 kibou97, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  12. Gunsmoke

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    I do think they can damage the progress of LGBTQ people, though. Like when the BLM movement disrupted the LGBTQ pride parade in... Toronto, I believe? Definitely somewhere in Canada. (Not saying I'm against BLM, but that pissed me off so much. Like, do you think this is a game? Hold your own fucking parade.) Anyway, they made all of these demands about the police not being allowed to have floats - even though the BLM issue is for the USA, not fucking Canada - and yeah, I think that definitely halted our progress at least a bit.

    So things like that, yeah, definitely damaging to our community, because we end up getting associated with radicalism (not that BLM are necessarily radicals, on a different topic now) which won't help us at all in the long run.
    And as far as I'm concerned, LGBP people who hate straight people are almost as bad as homophobes, the only difference is that we don't have the power to do to them what they did to us.
     
  13. Canterpiece

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    Ugh. Where do I even begin? I guess it depends on what you call a SJW, people tend to draw the line at different places. I mean the way some people treat mental health and social issues because of some of the more extremist people…it just…ugh. It concerns me, and quite frankly just annoys me. I feel like quite a few words keep being misused, and yeah I get that language changes overtime but I think people tend to miss the point of it all.

    The word “trigger” these days keeps being used in the wrong context. People have starting using it to mean “this thing annoys me” when actually, a trigger is a word/situation that brings up negative memories, usually due to abuse, traumatic experiences, torture and other forms of negative experiences. And yeah, you can’t avoid all possible words that could affect someone, but having some respect- not bringing up say, spears if possible, if the person in question saw someone being speared to death recently and you know this happened- is just common sense.

    So yeah, seeing someone use “trigger” to mean “this annoys me/doesn’t fit in to what I believe” annoys me because the people who are actually suffering with traumatic memories can’t use this word without people thinking they mean the other BS meaning.
    The extremist movements have also caused others to make groups that are equally radical in beliefs, but in the opposite direction.

    Another word I feel like is being misused is “feminist”. I think it should be a positive word, as by definition it is about equal treatment (economically and socially) and I feel like it should be remembered as such, I think it’s important that we remember why the feminist movement began in the first place.

    Sure, some of the stuff certain small but vocal groups I don’t agree with but I think generally we should discuss it (say why you don’t agree with X) and not just “yeah I believe in those ideals, but I’m not one of those people”. We shouldn’t fear these groups, but rather encourage discussion (but not stand for BS, don’t let them make you feel bad for not agreeing, sometimes compromising and agreeing to disagree can be the way to go).

    Saying the feminist movement isn’t useful and is *insert terrible disease here* isn’t helpful, and downright disrespectful to the women who have fought for the right to vote, and equal pay. Perhaps the people who say these kind of things ought to have a history lesson or two.

    I know the “no true Scotsman” fallacy tends to be brought up a lot, but here’s the thing- some of these extremists don’t actually fit into the definition of the social movement and more so fall into the misandrist category. I get that someone could argue with me that if I kept saying that about people, I am essentially cherry-picking what I want to see, and how I want the group to be seen. To an extent this is true, and this is why it is important for us to recognise that these groups exist within the group, and although they fit better into a different description, we should still recognise that these groups exist in the group, but realise that they don’t represent the group as a whole.

    When someone is part of a minority group, they may feel pressure to make a good impression with others who are part of a majority group. Especially if the people in the majority have seen the smaller more extreme groups and already made a judgement, this person in the minority may feel like they have to take it upon themselves to make a good impression to prove a point that “hey, we’re not all that bad!” and this can create an immense self-induced pressure on this person to succeed and be a good person, sometimes to unrealistic levels.

    A person doesn’t make a community, and sometimes people seem to forget that. Sadly, it isn’t the most knowledgeable, thoughtful individual that’s necessarily heard, sometimes it’s simply the case of the loudest- adding more pressure on to someone who wants to be a good role model for the community.

    Sometimes when this person creates an image of perfection, it can be damaging and actually create more of a divide between the majority and the minority, which causes a potential for some people who cling to this “perfection” to start feeling superiority over the majority, making them just as bad as the majority if the majority feels the same sense of superiority towards the minority.

    And of course, there are people who fit into one majority, and a minority at the same time. I think we need to accept that there will always be extremists in any group, regardless of how important or trivial that group is, that’s life. There is almost always an opposite to something.

    “For every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction”- Newton’s third law, and although that was regarding mass- I think it can be used to apply to social causes as well.

    Personally, I see the world as a random, yet beautifully chaotically balanced place. Sometimes you have to have a lack of balance to have balance, does that make any sense to anyone or is that just me? Make of it what you will.
     
  14. Quem

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    In a way, yes. Sometimes jokes are labelled "offensive to LGBT people" and I'm here thinking... Uhm, I thought it was very funny. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    The same with Elsa. Some people thought it was absolutely needed for her to get a girlfriend, also to include "us" more in films and such. But personally, I really don't care whatsoever about it. Eventually, people end up saying "they [LGBT community] push an agenda" and "they want special rights", but that's not what we're after.

    In that sense, I think social justice warriors do more harm than good.

    ---------- Post added 25th Sep 2016 at 07:19 PM ----------

    You're making a very good point here, gibson, I've seen that as well. Religion shouldn't be immune to critical thought and skepticism (just like any other topic).
     
  15. Gunsmoke

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    Yeah, same here. That said, I do think that big corporations like Disney should really be including LGBTQ characters by now. The so-called "gay couple" in Frozen (which wasn't confirmed, by the way, as "family" doesn't have to include a romantic partner) was hardly representation. And they only just had a black princess in, what, 2010? Disney is behind in general, to be honest.
     
  16. Quem

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    Oh, I do think they should be including them, but I think it should come naturally. People basically demanding such a thing are not helping in my opinion. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: But of course, I'd be very pleased with LGBT characters in Disney films!
     
  17. Opheliac

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    Honestly, I'm not a fan of the term SJW because although I'm aware of the meaning you've given in this thread, it's often used by bigots to silence and ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with them. People who are genuinely interested in social justice (and do more work for it than just sitting behind screens and arguing on the internet) get lumped into one category with idiots who don't know what they're talking about and get offended on the behalf of other groups they don't belong to, and immediately dismissed.

    I mean I live in a country where female foeticide and infanticide in rural areas happens all the time and is common knowledge. Homosexual sex is a crime you can be imprisoned for ten years for. We have a huge racism and classism problem in the majority of the country. But you mention any of this online and you're immediately labelled as an SJW who nobody will listen to.

    I view most people on tumblr (I don't use it, I'm only saying what I've seen) as basically immature people who don't have much of a clue of how the world works. It's a bit of a joke, how they overreact to everything and what not. I'm sure it's different in other parts of the world but here I don't think anyone really takes tumblr in particular seriously (though that could just be my bias, since I don't use it)

    This turned out to be kind of a rambly response but essentially what I'm saying is that at least where I live, it's really easy to label someone as a SJW without actually considering what they are saying at all.
     
  18. Daydreamer1

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    Being radical about your politics and ideas can be a great thing, but they can also be devastatingly harmful and toxic; especially when we talk about those who spend more of their time shaming and ridiculing someone that disagrees with them on something or doesn't fit their standard mold of how someone should be (ex: treating someone like shit because they're straight, how they dress, or if they're masculine and/or male).
     
  19. AmyBee

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    This. "SJW" and the phrase "politically correct" do much more harm. They're used to silence any and all dialogue.
     
  20. Formality

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    Yes and no.

    Yes, I think it is hurtful because this minority of people who act as "keyboard warriors" are spewing crazy shit out on the internet that then gets completely blown out of proportion which can later be used by conservative forces against the LGBT.

    No, because as mentioned above, whether or not there are SJW's out there saying stupid shit some people will use anything as a reason to further their agenda. Which in the end is to hate the LGBT.