When does it become 'cheating'?

Cheating in my opinion is any romantic/sexual action in the relationship that other party would be against you doing. Talking to certain friends, even if the partner doesn't approve, is never cheating since It's not romantic or sexual. Kissing, sexual contact, setting up dates are all cheating, unless it's within the context of an open or poly relationship (which then it is not).

I don't think coming out or being gay makes a difference, because then we set that standard that sex doesn't actually count between women as a real or intimate thing if it's not "really" cheating. We already have that societal belief held by misogynistic men that lesbian sex isn't real or doesn't count, which hurts younger lesbians as a whole.

My advice is this: Honesty and divorce should always come before the gay partner seeks out anything with the same sex. Someone will always have time after the marriage ended to be their true selves, but seeking it within a marriage is unethical to both the straight partner and to the possible dates that may be unaware.

 

It really depends on the agreement between the person and the partner of that person. Obviously, open relationships have different rules than closed relationships.

For me, I consider something cheating when one willfully seeks out the company of another person other than his or her partner, for romantic and/or sexual comfort. For instance, sneaking out of the house to go to some other person to cuddle and cuddle for hours, romantically, is something I would not appreciate at all.

I see cheating more as a "scale", there are various ways in which one can cheat, up to various degrees. I find it important to stress the word willfully, because the person (that is supposedly cheating) should not be drugged. The person in question has to know what he or she is doing.

Cheers,

Quem

 

I agree that *honesty* is essential, but not necessarily divorce. There are many ways that couples approach one partner being gay. Probably, divorce is most common. But, there are other choices people can make. It's up to the people involved to determine what they consider ethical --- it's not cheating if everyone is aware, honest, open, and respects one another's boundaries and needs.

 

I agree that it depends on the situation. I clarified I wasn't talking about open or poly.

On the other hand, I am skeptical of open relationships involving a woman being with other women only if she has a primary male partner. Usually, men only allow this for sexist/homophobic reasons.

I will clarify that I have nothing against poly and open relationships if they work well. If It's what you need to fix the relationship that's fine. But I personally would get wary about getting involved with a woman who's with a man for the above reasons, so I don't know how much of a challenge it would be to really find other lesbians who think differently. It would require communication and education over lesbian relationships to make sure he gets that the idea is not for him.

 

To me it means anything below the belt. My sister once broke up with a guy for just kissing another girl. I consoled her but I just don't get that at all.

 

I was taught that if you even seriously consider doing so, you've already cheated (in your mind).

 

Kissing/Sexual contact/Sexting/Meeting in secret is what I would consider cheating.

While flirting and private messages would raise suspicion, so long as it's platonic, I'd say it was fine.

 

Cheating would be committing to a relationship, kissing, sex (doesn't count if not consented). Chatting with friends online is not cheating. Flirting anonymously is a bit funny but nothing serious - although might make someone's partner jealous. ^-^

 

I consider cheating to be willingly breaking any explicit or implicit relationship expectation/agreement/rule between partners in regards to what's considered okay behavior to engage in with people outside of the relationship. So I consider doing something behind a partner's back with other people that you know would make them unhappy with you as a partner to fall under cheating. If you don't have any kind of open or poly arrangement, then talking to other people on a dating app is most likely considered off-limits behavior.

And personally, I would feel cheated on if I found out a partner was chatting to people on a dating app if we hadn't come to an agreement that it was okay for her to do so. And I wouldn't be able to trust that she was only using a dating app to make friends, because why would she specifically need to use a dating app to make friends when there are other resources out there that she could use to do the same that aren't intended for meeting romantic or sexual partners? And making friendships on a dating app seems like something that could easily escalate further, regardless of anyone's intentions.

 

I think if one feels the need to keep it secret from one's partner one is probably cheating. I don't really think that the coming out process changes that equation.

 

I've heard a lot about this recently, but... The thought that two women having sex "wasn't real sex" has never, ever crossed my mind. Even when I was a little, ignorant kid. Is this really what some people think?

 

I believed that up until about four years ago. People are so adamant it doesn't count, you begin to doubt yourself.

 

There's a societal belief that a penis has to be penetrating something for it to count as sex, and strap-ons don't count either.

I've been told I'll always be a virgin no matter how many women I sleep with, but nobody says the same thing about gay men who don't sleep with women. Never mind the fact that actual virginity only refers to heterosexual intercourse because of reproduction. A lot of straight people still call themselves virgins after anal sex (stupid), so why would it count more between two men than two women? Makes no logical sense to me.

 

I have no idea what you mean by doesnt count.. doesnt count as sex or doesnt count as cheating? It clearly counts as both lol...

I have seen you have been getting plenty of advice that I agree with, which I will not include, but...

First of all, EC is not the same thing as a dating app. I cant imagine someone considering this forum to be anything unethical, unacceptable, cheating, etc... We are here for support. If you need support, do not hesitate to come here. You are doing absolutely nothing wrong by getting support and discussing how you feel...

I would also argue the dating app with friendship only marked is not necessarily a bad thing. It might be, and only you can answer that. But if you are genuinely only looking for some friends to help you through this coming out process, then I think it is fine.

But you have to be honest with yourself and find out for yourself if you are honestly only looking for friends, or subconsciously are you using that to justify looking into the dating pool? That answer determines if the app is immoral or not..

That is my opinion at least... Either way, keep coming to EC when you need to talk, and remember your not alone and it gets better...

---------- Post added 15th Sep 2016 at 10:46 AM ----------

Just saw the post above mine after replying... I thought with virginity it was whether or not the hymen was intact... I could be way off, but I thought that was what doctors went by.. But if I am right, a strap on breaking it would take the virginity..

I heard a great pick up line about virginity...

I lost my virginity, can I have yours?

 

In my mind, the line between not cheating and cheating is pretty clear. Cheating is violating the rules. The rules are determined by the couple (and in the case of marriage, there is a default set of rules you agree to...but the couple is still free to change those, as a couple).

I agree that deceit is problematic and never a good idea. It is deceitful if you steal one of the cupcakes cooling on the tray, and then when your partner asks if you took one, you play cool and blame it on the dog...but is it *cheating*? I think not. At worst, just assholery. Maybe you just couldn't bring yourself to admit your crime in that moment...but planned to eventually...maybe later that night...who knows, maybe your partner really freaks out about this kind of thing and you wanted to formulate a way of admitting guilt that you felt good about, at least.

So the dating app, just asking for friendship...depends on the rules. If the rules are that you can't have friends other than your partner, then yes, that is cheating (or at least an attempt to cheat). Otherwise, no...not a good idea, given that you're being deceptive...but not cheating. Actually meeting with someone and (whether or not this is what you planned) engaging in sexual behavior with them, when the rules are that you and your partner are monogamous (one default assumption in most marriages)? Yes, absolutely cheating.

Does the line get thin? Not really, if the rules of your relationship are pretty clear. What if we just kiss? Well, are you allowed to kiss people other than your partner? Cybersex? Are you allowed to do that with people other than your partner? The answer lies in the rules of your relationship...you violate those, it is cheating; you don't, it isn't.

Is it ok, because the person is of the same sex? Well...do the rules of your relationship allow you to have sex with a same-sex partner? I suspect not. You think it's less cheating in that condition? That's where I get upset and cry bullshit, because I live with a same-sex partner *every day* and your assertion that same-sex sex isn't real sex invalidates my relationship and pisses me the hell off.

 

Not to derail even more, but not necessarily. The hymen can be broken by anything, masturbation, tampons, horseback riding, exercise. I broke my hymen when I was four years old by falling hard on a toy. And I also know women with hymens so thick that actual penis penetration does not break through them.

On the cheating part, I agree with Biannika.

 

I agree with a lot of responses that fellow members have made in regards to what is considered cheating. I also consider cheating when your partner takes chatting with someone online to another level by exchanging flirting messages and exchanging naked pictures. In my opinion...if you are committed to me and our relationship...you will not have the desire to do the above and if so...you should be honest enough to tell me if there is problems within our relationship that are so severe that you would consider doing so.