To stay in Edinburgh or move, in light of my gay 14 year old?

Hi Minny!

I grew up in Gloucester and went to school there, and spent a lot of time in Cheltenham growing up, and have many friends there. If you have any more detailed questions feel free to private message me!

Personally I didn't have a great time growing up in Gloucester, and going to school there. I went to one of the boys' grammar schools and was bullied horribly. But by the time I moved for sixth form to the girls' equivalent, it was easier to come out, and I actually helped a few friends come out after I led the way. And I know that a few of the younger gay kids had an easier time coming out after I'd left too. A lot of the kids who bullied me at school are now pretty pro-LGBT+ rights, so maybe it's changed. Of course, kids are cruel anywhere, so it's impossible to avoid bullies all the time.

Growing up I spent a lot of time in both Cheltenham and Gloucester. I know personally I felt a lot safer dressing in a more obvious 'gay way' (basically just dressing with a vague sense of fashion) in Cheltenham, and I would probably feel comfortable holding hands with another male there. I actually met my first boyfriend in one of Cheltenham's clubs after he came to my prom, and although I never went to the gay bar before it closed, I didn't feel uncomfortable being gay in 'straight' clubs like I have in many other cities, including Norwich which does have gay bars and is generally very inclusive and accepting.

I know a few gay people who went to the school in Cheltenham you may be thinking of - the mixed grammar school - and they seemed to find it okay. If you like I can ask one of my best friends who grew up gay in Cheltenham and knows the city better than I do any questions you have, and I know he'd be more than happy to provide some insight!

I would say Cheltenham is friendly and a place I would feel comfortable raising gay children, but I also found growing up there to be very stifling. There wasn't much to do and as soon as I moved to university I chose one all the way over in Norwich, and now I'm living in Philadelphia for a year - so I personally found growing up in the area great motivation to escape! I would never move back to Gloucester as I don't feel safe being gay there particularly, and there's not much to do and the people can be (occasionally) violent. The whole place is a little draining really, lots of my friends find it the same (gay and straight) when they return from university. If I did have to move back to the area it would be Cheltenham.

Having said that I spent a little time in Edinburgh this summer, and actually went to a few gay clubs with some friends, as well as going to some in Glasgow. I found Edinburgh to be really exciting and there was lots to do - I don't think I'd have been bored growing up there. But I also noticed in the friends I have in both cities there is less incentive for them to get out and see the world. Obviously in part due to free university education, but even after, I have a drive to travel but they seem content living in Edinburgh forever. I'm not sure how important that is to you with regards to your kids, but I've noticed living in a bigger city or a very small town can often discourage kids from thinking of moving.

If you like I could also forward any questions you may have to my friends in Glasgow and Edinburgh - one of whom is English and moved for university and so may have a different perspective to mine as he knows the area well but is also an outsider. I hope this has helped! Let me know if you have any more questions!

 

I only discovered this thread today but I wished I had seen it earlier. Firstly I know from experience that Edinburgh is a wonderful and open place to grow up as gay. Life would be so much easier if every town was like Edinburgh- but they aren't! The thing that I must say (and I'm sorry if this hurts you) is that you cannot and must not live your life for your children. One day they will make their way into the big bad world (just like I did from Scotland) and they will realise that there are nice people and nasty people no matter where you go. I was lucky enough to discover that Cardiff was a very welcoming place after I finished University and started standing on my own two feet. Again I apologise if I come across badly but I know two people who were home educated and both are totally messed up individuals 10 years on. You say your son wants to go to Oxbridge - wonderful but how well he relate to the very social nature of Oxford or Cambridge colleges without the social grounding that school offers. I assume your son is of a educational standard that he will get into suitable higher education so I must ask - what does he think? I can't see the point of moving to the other end of the country if he will be desperately unhappy.

As a woman I appreciate my position is different but I know the gay scene in Bristol well and I am sure that he will be welcomed should he wish to involve himself in it. Whatever your choice I wish you (and your son) well.

 

Hi Minny

Sorry for the late reply, classes have had me very busy lately!

I did get in to Pate's as a child through the 11 plus exam, but my parents never considered sending me there as it was too far. In hindsight, it may have been better as I always got on better with girls. Pate's has a reputation for being a great school academically, though I've heard from friends that the staff don't put as much attention into those students who aren't looking to go to Oxford or Cambridge when it came to university applications, though by the sounds of it that won't be an issue for your son. I went to Sir Thomas Rich's for school and then moved to Denmark Road/High School for Girls for sixth form. I hated Tommies but loved Denmark Road, though I've heard that fewer students go there now. Personally I would recommend Denmark Road as a good option if you like the look of it.

Obviously the reports of suicides due to bullying are concerning, but there has also been a massive cultural shift in opinions during the last few years. I remember school being hell in 2010/11 when I was taking my GCSEs, but not long after in 2012/13 when I was doing my A Levels lots of the kids who had bullied me were now advocates of the LGBT+ community. And hearing about kids who recently finished high school it seems things have changed even more - some kids were telling me about how before they came out as openly LGBT+, they were known at schools as being LGBT+ allies. When I was at school, you were considered either gay or homophobic, there was no in between. The idea that kids nowadays can be openly encouraging of the LGBT+ community before they even come out is amazing to hear. I think that perhaps your son will find fewer bullies nowadays whichever school he decides to go to.

One thing I would say about Pate's is it attracted lots of snobby rich kids, who then mostly went on to Exeter and Oxbridge universities, which can lead to them being slightly miserable environments. I applied to Exeter but chose not to go, but my three best friends went and they said the environment was too reminiscent of the snobbery found at grammar schools. I have a friend who goes to Oxford and though she enjoyed it she would be in the library from 8 am until midnight each day and her social life didn't seem to be interesting at all. I've not heard about much of an LGBT+ experience on campus either. I imagine Cambridge is slightly better with the well known drama department, but one of my best friends who ended up at Exeter applied to Cambridge and by the end of the experience was pretty happy to not be going there.

I have to admit to being 100% completely biased about this, as it's my university, but the University of East Anglia (UEA) in Norwich is fantastic. We either have (I forget which) the biggest LGBT+ population of students in the country, or the highest ratio of LGBT+ to straight students. The university itself is a great one - it's first in the country for my subject and a number of others, and is 14th in the league tables despite only opening in 1963. The campus has a lot of societies and an amazing music scene. The Pride society is more like a family than a group - I'm friends with the majority of the members and know lots of LGBT+ people in and around Norwich. There's also an outside society for Norwich in general which holds events throughout the city. There are two gay clubs in town, both cheap and friendly, and the club on campus is also somewhere students can be openly gay without worry. I've only been to straight clubs a few times but they have seemed pretty friendly too. The city itself is beautiful and has lots going on. It reminded me a little of Edinburgh too, definitely in a good way. It's a very arty city, with lots of independent shops. It's the kind of place that when my mum comes to visit she wears some of her more daring outfits (a purple velvet skirt??) that she doesn't wear very often at home because it doesn't feel right, and she gets compliments for it too. That sounds like a strange thing to say, but it's a good indicator for what kind of city it is. The people are friendly, there's enough pubs to go to one each day in the year and still have some left over, and almost as many churches too. I would even say look to moving to Norwich yourselves, as it's got lots of places where adults can go out in the evenings - I always see couples going to restaurants where the owners are friends with them and know their names. It has good music, a great literature scene. I'm not sure what the sixth forms are like, but so many of my friends who have graduated even after my first year of university don't seem to have left. I could easily see myself moving there one day and having kids of my own. And it's close to London so there's a big city you can go to on weekends, plus pretty much everything else in Norfolk is coastal towns so there's lots to explore. It also isn't far at all from Cambridge so if your son did decide to go there, you wouldn't be far away at all if he wanted to come home for the weekend.

I also looked at Kent University and that was my second choice. Canterbury as a town is also incredibly beautiful, and I've heard good things about Kent, so perhaps look into that too! Again I couldn't speak for the sixth forms but definitely look there as a university option or somewhere for you to move yourself!

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask! I will try and reply more quickly next time! Additionally if your son has any questions he'd like to ask me, about university, or sixth form, or anything in general, let me know and I can pm you my email address and we can set up a correspondence! Hope you are well!

 

Dear Minny,

I don't like to give advice - but . Don't move



I grew up in CAlifornia, not far outside of San Francisco. You'd think that would be cool RIGHT??


no . the few kids who were out went through really rough stuff

and one morning my mother and I awoke to police because a boy from a few block over hung himself on the play ground around the corner from myself. A young man who was friends with my friends, graduated high school, was well liked by his friends from everything I know, had been involved with the community at school I know of , was a talented skater... 18. Wrote in the sand "To sleep, perchance to dream"



Teenager years can be so difficult, adolescence... its a FORMATIVE time - not like being an adult

children DEVELOP their confidence as people at this time - you dont want anything to go against a kid.

If a gay can live in a community where they FEEL accepted, where they can smile and laugh and skip down the street and KNOW they are OK and safe

vs somehwere where they have to doubt?


As an adult I had the privlege of living in a big city with gay communities and it was lovely - then i had to move, and now I have been places where even as an adult I always have to wonder if its OK or if something negative is going to happen. I hate it = its so stupid. I'm over this - I grewup, advocate for LGBT respect in california, moved to a big city wher i was free - now this again? its so bad for ones mental health


Take care of your kid. Give him his chance at a great childhood

You can move to smaller town in a few years, once he's on his own.

Give him a good life - don't take risks with his whole life


Take care <3

 

To be honest, city life is much kinder to gay kids than rural/small-town life.
In a lot of cases, moving to somewhere smaller could end up putting him back in the closet. If you're prepared to stay in the city his sake, I'd say do it.
I think this is a crucial time in his life for confidence, social awareness and self-awareness development. You've already helped him massively by being an excellent parent, but avoiding bullying and ignorance at this point could be quite healthy for him.

This is coming from someone who grew up rural, but moved to the city when I was 18, the difference in acceptance was unbelievable.

Just my opinion.

 

Hi Minny! I tried to send this as a private message along with my email address, but it wouldn't let me send it to you as you are not a full member!

I personally wouldn't live in Cheltenham so I totally get you and your son feeling the same!

I can't speak about Winchester. But if it's close to London he can always go to the city to go to bars when he's older.

These stories about Oxbridge are all from very intelligent people. Obviously generalising here, but I think a lot of the students at Oxbridge don't need to swot because they're incredibly intelligent naturally, but lack emotional intelligence and social skills. It sounds like your son has no trouble with social skills, so he might find the atmosphere at an Oxbridge a little alienating. Though I'm sure that's not the same for every student, I don't think the opportunities for socialising will be as great as it would be at a different university. Of course, you have to balance that with future career opportunities - I know a girl who picked the easiest course to get into at Oxford and struggled through a degree she wasn't interested in for three years and now is getting job offers from great places, even though it was a geography degree, just because she went to Oxford!

I think you're right to not listen to the advice from the American poster, I'm currently living here on my year abroad and things are totally different here. I imagine living in a small town here would be hell (the small towns in this state have KKK members and everything) which is obviously vastly different to small towns in England.