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How important are gender roles for you?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by anthracite, Sep 4, 2016.

  1. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    I feel like I'm the only one here that values them so much. I'm kinda like "Do whatever you want as long as you don't harm anyone" but for myself I have a very strict code for it. Not for women in fact, i like women that can fight or have strong personalities. Just for myself. I have this voice in my head, it gives me thoughts like this all day long:

    - Damn you, why are you not in the army where you belong? It is your duty as a young man to fight for your country so get rid of that underweight and enroll at last!

    - You should go and do some more sports! Especially martial arts, how could you not have time for that? How do you wanna defend girls in need when you're a weakling?

    - And don't forget running! You're slow as fuck. Remember the army? You're gonna be the first one who gets shot. And by the way: Real men need to run fast. Your ancestors used to chase animals to death. What are you, an omega animal?

    - So, I forgot to mention that you haven't mastered good manners. Basics, everybody knows basics. You can't hunt, you can't fight and also you are completely uncivilized. That's not the standard we are aspiring for! (Note: My ideal of a man is that he should kill a bear with bare hands, safe the girl and cook her the best dinner she had in her life)

    - Ugh. You're not going outside without your hair properly styled, barbarian. You shame everyone you associate with. No, I don't care if it's only 5 minutes for a damn smoke, are you a boy or a man?

    - How about your finances? Yes, we don't want to check that right? It's so irresponsible. How do you want to help your family? How do you wanna feed the family you found when you're older? You're old enough to take care of that now! Where did you forget your honor, man? Gonna go all princess instead of working, huh?

    - Oh, poor little princess hurt her muscle while working out. Poor little princess gonna cry now? Get your ass to the weights and train some other muscles and stop whining. We don't do that, okay!
     
  2. Synesthesia

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    people compare themselves to other people of their gender so it makes sense, and also gender roles in themselves are based around an idealised woman and man, so people end up striving to fit in with them. I think it's much harder for trans people too because you're constantly being told that you're not the gender you identify with, unless you pass.

    I have thoughts like this too at times.

    As for my opinion on gender roles, I'd like to see them matter less to people. I'd like a world where people do their own thing and not get demonised for it. I don't think they can be removed entirely but... Some progress has been made over the last so many years at least.
     
  3. Kodo

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    I get why they exist. It is completely understandable from a psychological and sociological perspective why we have gender roles. But do I think we "should" conform ourselves to them? No.

    Some of what you've said reminds me of what I aspire to, and how I speak to myself. It isn't a bad thing to want to be masculine or do any of those things that are stereotypical for guys to do. However, it becomes a problem when it becomes a basis for harm (either from yourself or others).

    On the other hand, I think it is completely fine for people to bend and even break gender roles. While yes, I do want to ascibe to the gentleman type, I want to have facial hair and wear a tux, I want to learn the martial arts and be physically strong, I want to understand the masculine realm... This is just me.

    If a guy wants to wear makeup and dresses, and be beautiful, I'd tell him to go for it. If a girl wants to wear a suit and have short hair, good on her. What other people do is their choice - nay - their right. It is not anyone's place to force someone into a role alien to them.
     
    #3 Kodo, Sep 4, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  4. Cinis

    Cinis Guest

    As one of those tux wearing short haired people that's into martial arts I'd say they don't matter, because at the end of the day that guy in the dress is still a man and I'm not.
    But I'm doing these things because they're just me. Which means that if your interests happen to align to gender roles there's nothing wrong with it as long as you're doing you and no one pressures you into acting a way you don't want to act.
     
  5. August Silver

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    For me stereotypical gender roles are what made me confused, miserable and lost and forced me to stay in the closet. The main reason I didn't come out and start transitioning before now was because I didn't feel like I'm legit and thought I could never be a "proper man" because I'm sensitive, hate team sports, like doing makeup etc. Having good manners is beneficial for everyone regardless of gender and anyone can join the army or not join it if they like these days in many countries etc. I do admit that doing traditionally "manly" things do help with my confidence at this stage, pre HRT, when I don't pass, but I generally have a deep hatred of labels and boxes because of the unecessary suffering they caused me and cause everyone, including cis people.
     
  6. SystemGlitch

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    I hate gender roles for causing me stress and hurt throughout my life, especially since I don't fit neatly into either male or female roles, but now they're one of the things I rely on to help me pass as male. So they're a double-edged sword. I wish they didn't exist but I also don't know if the "gap" in my passing persona would mean I don't pass.
     
  7. randomconnorcon

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    I like gender roles sometimes - I want to be strong and fast and good at sports, etc. I'm very competitive in pretty much everything I do, either because I'm passionate about it or someone's commented that they're better and I want to beat them. I like to dress smart and be a gentleman when the mood calls for it (I'm usually a sarcastic dick who dresses in jeans and band/fandom t-shirts).

    But I also know my limits. It takes time - I'm new to the gym, I'm nowhere near able to be prescribed T, and I hate pretty much everything about myself and the situation I'm in. And it's because of gender roles and how people see me - if I painted my nails black and let my hair grow a little, they'll ask if I'm a girl again, no matter what I wear I get misgendered. There are people in this world who use gender roles that range from annoying to toxic. In turn, I think we can use that on ourselves to try and prove we're just as much the gender we say we are as cis people, which helps no one in the end.

    You're free to act and be however you want to be, but it sounds like you're putting too much pressure on yourself. If you hurt yourself or snap, it's only going to get to you worse.
     
  8. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    I act that way simply because I can't do it differently. This is a huge part of my life. My motto is: If pressure doesn't hurt, it's not enough. It's like workaholism somehow. I've had my breakdowns but I got over it and this is where my energy comes from. I don't like the whole do it a bit only as long as you're healthy thing. Do it or not, but if you do, Do or die, you know? Because I'm middle class and a millenial I feel like if I don't nearly destroy myself in the process of achieving my goals, I am unworthy.
     
    #8 anthracite, Sep 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2016
  9. killswitch0029

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    I don't really care about them. People should just do what they wanna do without feeling pressured to something specific just cause their a guy or girl
     
  10. BradThePug

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    I cared about them more at the beginning of my transition than I do now. I think that at the beginning of my transition I was really desperate to fit into the mold of the "typical" male. Now, I just really don't care what people think. They can think whatever they want of me, but at the end of the day I know who I am and how I identify myself.
     
  11. Pistachio

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    This might not be totally on topic but reading your posts made me think about it.. Back when I thought I was a lesbian, it was partially because I would try to picture myself in a relationship with a guy, and hit a dead end. I now realize it was probably because I saw gay relationships as more.. Fluid. Like I could be dating a girl but not be the "girl" in the relationship, sort of. And it felt wrong to picture myself in a straight relationship because that would make me the girl.. If that makes any sense? I always pictured myself as the more masculine role. Holding open doors.. Giving my date flowers.. Being the big spoon.. It's cheesy and a bit silly.. But I imagine it a lot. I guess thinking about being that to someone.. Distracts me from where I am now. It's a fantasy I return to when I can't stand what I am in the present. Oops that got a little too deep. Thank you for indulging me :wink:
     
  12. Anthemic

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    I don't think people should feel like they have to be in one. But, I prefer it. I want a woman who is a mix of masculine and feminine who prefers to act as the man in the relationship. I prefer to play the role of the woman. :slight_smile:
     
  13. Rickystarr

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    Accepting that I am trans has actually lessened the importance of gender roles for me. And I was pretty concerned about them, but more like how Pistachio said. I don't really force MYSELF into gender roles because I already am the way I am, not terribly masculine but certainly not feminine. But I used to be very concerned with my romantic partner's gender expression. I would feel very threatened if my significant other was taller, bigger, stronger than me, or masculine in any way, especially because like I said, I'm not SUPER masc, so it is very important that I at least appear more masculine in comparison to whatever girl I'm standing next to so there are no questions that I am the guy in the relationship. At the time it seemed silly even to me that I was so picky and I thought maybe I was just into the butch/femme thing.

    Now that I know I'm trans it doesn't bother me so much if a girl I'm with has masculine qualities or hobbies since I KNOW I'm the guy no matter what. My fiancee for example wanted to start weight lifting and I was trying to be supportive but secretly I'm like "Shit. She's going to get stronger than me. I'm going to have to start weightlifting too which I don't really want to do."

    Now, I'm like "whatever. I'm still a guy. I'll just have a fit fiancee." and I know I am starting T anyway soon and that will still give me an advantage aha.
     
  14. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    Hey Rick, congrats for getting T soon! I wouldn't mind a fit girl actually I like them better if they are a little masculine. Though it is stuck in my mind that I will have to find a girl and provide everything for her so she can decide whether she wants to work or not.
     
  15. Rickystarr

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    Hey, thanks! I don't actually have my letter yet but my therapist almost seems impatient for me to start T. Like I keep going in there like "Am I really trans? I wore a skirt to ninth grade homecoming." and she's like "Jesus Christ, of course you are trans. Get out of here with this." lol So basically as soon as I have the money to start, I will start. Hopefully within the next month or two.


    That is interesting though...I wouldn't mind a fit girl, particularly because it shows dedication, but I still don't really appreciate "masculinity". It's more like I don't necessarily think doing traditionally "masculine" things will make a girl more masculine.

    Also, I do wish I made enough money to be able to completely support someone, but I can barely support myself. My fiancee definitely wears the pants in that regard. XD
     
  16. Creativemind

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    I'm cis but I have my own story revolving gender roles, so I hope others don't mind me sharing.

    I've always hated gender roles personally. I feel more masculine of center and I completely hate girly crap, skirts, dresses, makeup, the over the top grooming regiments, "wanting" children, all of it.

    So I thought maybe I could be a trans guy, In fact i hoped to be a guy and transition a few years ago. I even went to therapy over it.

    What I learned? People calling me male pronouns made me uncomfortable. The thought of having a penis, flat chest, masculine voice, facial hair, upper body muscles, all of that made me uncomfortable.

    I love being called she. I love my female body and female sex characteristics. But I hate femininity. I hate being expected to be "girly" or a "proper woman".

    So I decided I was a non-gender conforming woman with more masculine qualities.

    Now, some people do care about gender roles. I feel like men especially do (cis or trans) because there's more expectations to be a "real man" and all of that. And if that's what they want, fine. But I think gender roles for the most part (aside from obvious biology ones) are socially conditioned and people would care less if other options are available.

    If someone followed gender roles by their own choice, I have no problem like that. The problem is only when people think it defines their gender alone.
     
  17. Kira

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    I see it as just a big stereotype, and while I fall heavily under one of them, it's never perfectly "cookie cutter" and even the most typical individuals like myself will never fit perfectly as with other stereotypes.

    I feel the way humanity handles it however, to be a problem. There's still a lot standing in the way of real gender equality and I feel like many use these roles/stereotypes to justify their efforts in holding back progress.

    A good example is the ERA (Equal Rights Act) to grant women equal rights to men in the US constitution. It was never passed, and still remains as such. The "reasoning" for this often can be traced back to these stereotypes and the influence they have over general minds. When asked why, the (rather dense) individuals will say "It's because you belong in the kitchen, stay home and take care of children you don't have or want" or "This is a threat to housewife lifestyle!" and even blatantly "It goes against traditional values!"

    They literally have women volunteering to hold back their own rights, because they don't know what it's like to live otherwise.

    I'll just say this, I'll continue to dress and act how I like and if it overlaps a stereotype, fine, but I don't expect others to do the same. They should dress and act how they like. Be yourself.
     
  18. Foxfeather

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    I try to fulfill both and I think I do so quite successfully.
     
  19. CassieMaes

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    I really dislike gender roles and what society expects people to do, while I do enjoy cooking and looking after children, I would never want to carry a child because I don't feel comfortable with it, I don't want to be a stay at home mum- I want to work and pull my own weight and I don't like 'girly' things, I mean I'll wear a skirt or dress every now and then but I prefer shorts and trousers, and I guess some shades of pink are okay but I prefer blues and greens; so I guess you can say I don't fit into either of them perfectly! And that's fine by me.
     
  20. anthracite

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    I noticed that most are far more relaxed when it comes to females. Strong, confident career women are appreciated and mostly respected while husbands who don't work and care for the kids AND have an idea of style do not. I can respect them, but my first reflex is kinda WTFish.