LGBT News Black Lives Matter disrupt Toronto Pride

Because "all lives matter" is used to silence BLM protesters and the issues they bring up. Suddenly, every non-black person is concerned with how many blacks murder blacks (right)...

 

They're the ultimate cry bullies and narcissists. The fact that this went down makes me feel relieved i had to miss Toronto pride this year.

 

I was wondering if you went to that. But yeah, Black Lives Matter has gotten out of hand.

 

Ya Andrew99! It's so cool when you get your fur up.

 

I agree. It's completely disingenuous.

Obviously I believe there are faults with BLM: they frequently misplace their anger/frustration, they disrupt and "shut down" events that would probably otherwise be on their side, doing themselves no favors; they turn calls for reform in America's police system into simply being anti-police; and they turn some issues that are better described in other terms into divisive racial ones.

There are a lot of reasons to be critical of BLM, and sometimes I feel that they are digging their own graves. But proclaiming "all lives matter" as some kind of criticism of them, as some kind of alternate "all-inclusive" solution to their issues is a distraction, reactionary, and disingenuous.

First of all, saying "black lives matter" does not imply that all lives don't matter, any more than owning a cat shelter implies that you don't care about dogs. One can place emphasis on the issues of a specific demographic without necessarily including every other demographic. For those of you saying "all lives matter", is your immediate response to gay pride, "what about straight pride?" The key distinction here is the motivation behind creating such demographic-specific organizations and events. BLM was created in response to police shootings of black youth. "All lives matter" was created to spite BLM, the same way "straight pride" is brought up to spite gay pride. It's not about a response to injustice, discrimination, or other issues, it's about making sure you're the focus of something that doesn't necessarily need to focus on you. It's about taking away focus from people who might need to be focused on for once.

 

Agreed, ^Libertino. I see BLM and similar progressive movements as platforms on which to fight for equal rights for people. That all lives matter is obvious unless you're a fascist, psychopath or whatever. That isn't the question here. The question is the systemic violence and discrimination done unto the non-white population.

I also find it interesting (pff) that all lives matter is a white thing, mainly purported by white people.

 

Ah yes, remove police from representation. Forget all the LGBT police officers who risk their lives to protect you. They're associated with a few bad apples so forget all of them, right?


For the record, I don't care about "All Lives Matter" because it's a petty argument to begin with. The problem I have is that people seem to neglect a lot of factors when they start bashing police officers. Removing them completely from the pride event? Why? The LGBT community is supposed to be very inclusive and diverse. We're supposed to show that we're open minded. But we can't extend that diversity to a group of people who make their living off defending us?

This is in Toronto of all places. It's not even in a country that has nearly the amount of racism that the US does. And they want to take their anger off on police officers who want to march WITH the LGBT community to show pride? Surely we can all see something wrong with this

 

You make some good points, Skaros. There does seem to be a very unbalanced amount of hate directed at police officers in general nowadays. I think we can all admit that there are some rotten apples within the ranks of our nation's police force, but to hold all policemen accountable for the action of a deranged few is grossly unfair. Nine times out of ten, a policemen is a force of order and security in a society that certainly needs stabilizing. My fear is that young children will see how these irrational adults mischaracterize the police and not feel comfortable in reaching out to a policemen when they need help.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that there is a huge amount of importance in working towards reducing discrimination that black trans people face. From everything that I read, trans black women are statistically the group that suffer the most from discrimination and social exclusion. With this in mind, having a black civil rights group champion their cause is overall extremely positive. It would obviously be better if they didn't do it at the cost of others and as such I can't support their methods but looking at the larger picture it might be a positive change.

On the other hand, I do believe that LGBT police should have a place as part of the parade and I disagree with the ban. One of the greatest risks that LGBT people face is police discrimination and inclusion can help change attitudes and might save LGBT people from police harassment. The inclusion of police also makes the pride parade much more safe and there have been enough events recently throughout the world of anti-lgbt people attacking people at parades to show how important it is to have police presence at parades. LAst of all, LGBT police face a specific type of discrimination as a result of working in a profession that places them in complicated and often violent situations and representation is important to highlight their unique position with regards to discrimination.

 

I feel a little embarrassed for the BLM movement.

 

All lives should always matter. If we really need a movement for that, humanity is doomed.

 

Well said, Raven.

 

#nolivesmatter

Our existence is inconsequential.

 

That's negative, but still deep and philosophical. Mind=blown.

 

Ask me what it means! Ask me what it means!

TBH I just put it there frivolously, but I kind of realized it might be deeper than I intended.
Kind of.

 

I said and will say that this "we don't want police to treat us any different from other people" thing is bullshit.

As long as there's statistically a bigger crime rate for a group of people, increased vigilance is not racism. If black men are more likely to break the law, the police are then entitled to more likely be suspicious towards them.

Back in the 80s gay men were more likely to have AIDS. That's why to this day in most countries men that had homosexual intercourse (in the last year) are forbidden from donating blood.

Don't mix likelihood with discrimination.

Call prevalence of abuse from police towards black people racism. That's problematic. Suspects/criminals should be treated the same as far as physical differences are concerned.

Police is present at prides to (also) maintain order. It doesn't make sense for you maybe, but for eastern Europe you might be surprised to see how useful it is. And after the Orlando shootings police presence in LGBT events should make SOME sense.

Now, lastly, banning police from partaking in a protest/pride is also discrimination. Yes, not all black men are criminals, but guess what, not all policemen are abusing people of color.

Every minority should strive for equity, once it breaks its own premises it can no longer be taken seriously.

 

I didn't say to remove police from the parades. I said I, personally, would feel better if there were fewer police. I did not make any sort of comment on how I want things to look like in this situation.

Listen. If there's one thing that pisses me off, as a person who at times have a hard time communicating her feelings and opinions, it's people putting words in my mouth as if I have expressed something I have not. I do not think policemen- and women are bad people in general. In fact, from my experience, police often have a strong sense of duty towards their community and a lot of compassion. Therefore, please note that my critique is impersonal*. I see a value in criticizing the police force and its role in society, and, more precisely in this case, its role in the Pride parades. And again, criticize doesn't necessary mean "OMG EVIL BLEH". Not that I've done much criticizing here, more like spewing out anxious jabs, but overall that is my purpose in criticizing the police force.
The thing is, I don't quite believe that they are in my best interests, that's the thing. They serve many functions, some of them good, but what I would claim is their main purpose is to uphold a system this I despise. Thus I dislike the police as an institution - not as people.
*impersonal does not equal objective in my meaning, by the way.

 

I believe there's a bit of a misunderstanding here. Firstly, lets establish that you did in fact say: "I would personally feel better with a minimum of or no police at Pride events.". Now, you may not have meant that police officers, or people who happen to have that as a career yet are still lgbt, should be excluded from pride in general however, it appears to have been interpreted in that way in this instance. However, I assume it wasnt your intention to be exclusive in that way from your response. It's just hard in general to express accurately how you feel about things you feel passionate about and get your meaning acrossthrough text alone, especially on the internet.

 

Black lives matter has seemed to cause more harm than good.

 

The movement is motivated by wanting to challenge institutionalised racism in america's (and apparently canada's?) police forces - which demonstrably exists and is a major problem so it's a noble cause. A lot of their energy is so misdirected though, like disrupting Bernie Sanders rallies when he was fighting for black civil rights before most of them were even born.. it's retarded. LGBT should be natural allies why try to drive a wedge?