EC Dao/Taoists

Whatever life philosophy is adopted, make sure it is a coherent and comprehensive life philosophy, there is a lot to be said for having one, and for building essential principles based on that philosophy.

The Tao (or Dao) means The Way, and it is a very deep and ancient Way indeed. Interestingly the Jewish word "Torah" (which includes, but is not restricted to what is now called the Bible) also means The Way. It is choosing a path that is important and one that is practicable in real life.

 

I was not born Jewish, but I converted to Judaism, interestingly enough when i was exactly your age. The twenties are very much the right time in life to explore different "Ways". Judaism, for me at any rate, is a remarkably coherent way of life. The Star of David symbolizes this beautifully: with a triangle pointing up, to the divine source of things, superimposed on a triangle pointing down, to earthly concerns, and somehow, the integrated whole brings a higher sense and purpose to life, not the least of which is the concept of "Tikun Olam" or repairing the world (from its currently "broken" state), or the idea of justice for all. You would be amazed as to how much of our current systems of law owe to ancient Talmudic discussions as recorded in Jewish law and commentary.

I am no longer practicing as religiously as I once did, however I still consider myself a Jew, and my kids do as well. Currently, I am looking at stoicism as another, complementary Way for the second half of my life, this book is an excellent introduction.

 

I saw an even better video (IMO of course) on it, but I can't find it.

I am the kind of person who doesn't like labels in general - this comes naturally to me, since I'm very multi-faceted. However, I have identified as a Taoist, and still I wouldn't say that it's an inaccurate label.

Now. From the Tao Te Ching (in my edition): "Tao called Tao is not Tao." Tao isn't as much something that "is" as it's something you do. The lumberjack follows Tao when he or she is chopping wood, as well as when they are having their sip of tea afterwards.

As explained in your video above, Taoism is realistic, just like Buddhism, for example (although in a bit different way), but it's also a fundamentally positivistic way of looking at life. "When life's handing you lemons, make lemonade."

I have no interest, beyond perhaps a cultural/anthropological one, in the religious branch of Taoism, such as is at times practice in e.g. Korea, with big ceremonies etc.
I merely find that Taoism aligns very well with the kind of daydreaming, reflective philosophies I've been accumulating since childhood.

 

Hey Sartoris, about the Tao or Dao, no, I have not practiced any of this. I tried reading an English translation of the Tao te Ching, but frankly, I did not find much in there that could be put into specific practice (not that there's anything wrong with that, my point of reference is Judaism with all its 613 commandments, LOL!), other than getting some of the wisdom found therein and finding much of it quite similar to my own chosen tradition.

 

@greatwhale Indeed, there are no specific instructions of how to do your life - in fact, one of its messages is that the way to know what is the correct way of life is to shut off all excess abstract thought, and just feel your way through life. That way you will find your way, which is the way. There is no seperation between you and the rest of all of existence. Like it's said in the anime Fullmetal Alchemist: "One is all, all is one."

@Sartoris Basically, Tao is entirely undefineable. At best, in words, it can be but hinted at. The only way to know it is to do it, and do it right. The Tao Te Ching explains this to some extent (and in general it's the most comprehensive text on the subject), but I find The Tao of Nature better at this in particular.
Indeed, the philosophy is a spawn of the mind of ancient China.

 

That could be said to be an assumption, yes. Also, Taoism is not absolutist, but rather relativist; therefore there aren't much the traditional notions of striving for 'harmony', which is an abstract moralistic idea, as there is focus on finding your way.

Oh, Taoism is properly defineable as a strain of philosophical thought (and a branch of ritualistic, mythical religion, often separetely), but Tao in itself is undefineable, I mean.
Taoism, in constract to Buddhism, can be said to be very attached to physical experiences; however, it shuns excess including societal ideology etc. to a large extent.

 

I love thay someone started a thread on Taoism! I thought i was one of the few people that follow Taoism on here.
The Tao Te Ching is a real easy read. Its essentially a collection of short poems or thoughts (for lack of a better term). I would recommend listening to a Taoist podcaster who i think is just brilliant. Hes an Italian guy who now is a college professor here in the states. His name is Daniele Bolleli and his podcast is called "The drunken Taoist podcast".
He also has a lecture series that he did on Taoism specifically, you should really check it out. If you cant afford it (think its a couple bucks), you can email him and tell him you cant afford it and are really interested. Hell send you the lecture for free. I just recommend that you pay if you can afford it. We need to support good people like Mr. Bolleli.
Lets keep this thread up, good stuff!

 

Another thing I can say is that in terms of ideology, Taoism shares a lot of similarities with anarchism, criticizing the state, valuing freedom, etc.

 

The religion as I've seen it is often of fancy rituals, almost with a smell of aristocracy at times, which is why I'm kind of awkward when it comes to that stuff. I don't have much knowledge on it, though. It's not always like that, though. Often there's music and stuff - kind of relaxed, spontaneous music, so in that way it's very much in the spirit of Taoism. Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEqdPjxQBak
Taoism is also often part of the foundation of martial arts, such as Shaolin Kung Fu.

I came across Taoism on the internet, I think. It made great sense to me - the focus on contradiction, the open-minded, open-ended thinking, its ideals of freedom and spontaneity, the focus on everything as a flow best to embrace rather than oppose, its simplicity - it quite drew me in. So then I bought the Tao Te Ching and felt like I could understand maybe a little better before, and some more books. I have always followed these strains of thought a lot before I knew what it was, so really it didn't matter that I found out about it being considered a religion (I don't think about it that way even). ^_^

 

It was kind of a mixture of a few things that kind of just happened to line up properly. Ill try not to be too long but I believe it to be something that has developed over the years.
I went to a Catholic grammar school and was raised a Catholic. From a young age I have always found myself intrigued about spirituality and religions (though at the time I didn't understand those feelings or pay much attention to them). Over time I found myself questioning God. Pleading with him to make me "cool", have the popular girl like me, help me pass this test etc. and seeing that nothing would happen. I chalked it up to be asking for petty things and that God doesn't have time to be answering ol little me and my prayers. Then I started realizing that I was gay. I would beg God to make me straight. I promised to start going to church as often as possible. I promised to never give up on my 40 day promise during lent. I promised every holy and God loving thing I could think of. I would try to interject women in my thoughts as I was ejaculating when I would masterbate thinking, thatll turn me straight! it didn't. I then gave up on God. I transferred to a public grammar school in 7th grade. I not only left my church but everyone of my friends that went there with me my whole life. I considered myself atheist from then on out.

I graduated from grammar school and went to a Catholic H.S. I went there because my brother went there (not at the same time, 5 years older than me) and at this point in my life, I looked up to him. So I went through high school as an atheist the entire time. I really enjoyed the religious classes and just dissecting the bible and finding all its flaws and even finding the moving stuff. Through this, I developed the idea that I really don't need religion to be a good person or to have a moral compass. I have my own set of morals, and those morals are instilled by myself to myself. I have those set of morals because I believe them to be right and just, not because it was indoctrinated in me or because I would suffer the consequences of gods wrath for not following his word but because they were JUST.

After HS, I went to a local community college and worked part time for a year and a half... Then my best friend died of a sudden heart complication in his sleep. I lost it. I was a complete wreck. I was diagnosed with a mild form a PTSD a year or so after I lost my friend. I learned that from seeing a therapist and a psychologist. I was prescribed antidepressants and it just made me like a robot which I hated. I couldn't get really upset but I could never get very happy either. My best friend who past away has 2 older brothers, I got really close to one and we are really good friends now. He introduced me to Joe Rogan, which lead to me diving deep into psychedelics.

The older brother... well call him Thomas... and I were hanging out one day and I happened to get a hold of some psilocybin mushrooms. We both ate a decent amount and started tripping after some time. I remember looking at him and just leaving my body but still was in communication with him. We both said nothing to each other and later on we talked about how we both communicated without talking in another dimesion of reality....yes you may find me crazy but we whole heartedly believe it. I came to the realization that we were all connected. each and every one of us. were connected with the animals, the plants and all other living organisms. through that I started listenining to other lectures and talks about psychedelic experiences and spirituality which then ultimately led me to Taoism

sorry for the long post!

 

Oh, I certainly don't think of religion as a dirty word, and that was not the motivation behind my saying that I personally don't think of Taoism as a religion. I meant that in general, Taoism falls better under the umbrella of a philosophy than a religion in my opinion.

I have that edition of the book. It's really cheap and takes like an hour to read through.

 

No worries about a shorter reply. A common idea of Taoism is putting forth just enough energy to get a job done and nothing more. If it takes one bullet to kill an animal for food, don't go out using a machine gun to do the job, so to speak. You conveyed your emotions and thoughts across just fine....I kinda went a lil over board, as I tend to ramble lol.

Id say its definitely an independent thing. Though my Catholic upbringing may have fueled it by the lack of answers and the plurality of "because I said so." I tend to not take kindly to authority figures and people who try to play that role, so naturally a dogmatic religion doesn't fit me at all. One of my earliest memories involved religion, I just think I wasn't too aware of the fact at the time. I was really young and only really knew the idea of heaven and hell, god and satan. I remember looking in, what I now know to be the bible, and seeing a picture of the devil in the bible.(It wasn't a traditional bible, it had pictures and was more of a guide to the bible, or that's what I think...It was a long time ago lol). I remember convincing myself that I wanted to fight the devil. I can still remember the angst I had towards this figure. I really thought that I could fight him, would fight him and id beat his ass. I think I found interest in religions early on just as being something that was supernatural, unexplainable and staunchly believed in as true. Id say it had a bit to do with Catholicism but there was a fire in me to learn about spirituality and the unexplainable in general.

Most people know Joe Rogan as being the guy that hosted fear factor. Hes also a comedian, he does a lot for UFC, and has a very popular podcast. I don't agree with some of the things he talks about but hes pretty respectful to different opinions. Hes like kind of a meat head but one that is also an intellectual.... very paradoxical but life is very paradoxical. lol

if you don't mind me asking, have you tried any drugs before? I hope I'm not coming across as some drug addicted junkie but I think if you use proper drugs in special circumstances, it can help people tremendously. I really only smoke pot and occasionally eat mushrooms. would never touch herion or anything that's physically addictive.

 

Yeah, that's true, sometimes I put it down and were like, "Hmm, I feel there's more meaning to extract here... nyes... hmm...", plus I've read it, like, 20 times.

Hmm, I don't have it in my bookcase now (I had to put some books in the storage room, they didn't fit). But there are some good ones I remember by heart.
- The stiff and strong sink down ~ The soft and weak rise up
- Without looking out the window, know the world
- Knowing that enough is enough is always enough
- Best to be like water, which pools in low places and benefits the ten thousand things