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Should 'hate/free' speech be allowed?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Multiverse, Jun 16, 2016.

?

"Hate" speech should be...?

  1. Allowed

    41 vote(s)
    54.7%
  2. Banned

    22 vote(s)
    29.3%
  3. I don't know

    12 vote(s)
    16.0%
  1. Secrets5

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    The people of society define what is considered ''hate'', which means that anything could be labelled as ''hate'' as we are all the people of society.

    During the 1950s, saying ''I like gay people'' [whether or not they are gay themselves] would have been seen as hatred and against god, as that's what most people thought. Now, some religious people [about 5%] think that ''God likes gay people'' and that ''God hates gays'' is seen as hatred.

    There's things I don't like. I don't the fact people smoke outside hospitals where the people severely ill in ambulances come in. Is that hatred of people who smoke? Yes. Do I think it's justified? Yes - because the people smoking there are harming the already severely ill. Would others think that's justified? No - because it's taking away the human right to smoke. Do I understand that? Yes. Do I agree with it? No. Why? Taking away your human right to smoke outside the hospital [and go smoke somewhere else out of the way of unwell people] will mean severely ill people won't be made worse by your smoke. Do I think this is the right way of debating? Yes - because I'm writing this by myself. Would others? No - because I am by myself and need others input to determine if I am right or not. Would I listen to them? Yes. Would I agree with them? If you think it's okay to smoke in front of people who are severely ill and have no respect for their health, then no, I'm not going to agree with you. Is this hatred? Yes ... [and back the beginning, feel free to add].

    I know my example is away from LGBT.

    According to Marxists, no one is truly free, we are a product of our environment. Our opinions are shaped about where were are in life, who and what we associate with. We only think we are free due to capitalism. Of course, this is coming from someone middle-class and very into sociology - if I was higher class, working class or into a different -ology I might think differently.

    So should hate speech be allowed? Speech should be allowed. Only after it is spoken can one decide if it is ''hate'' or not and if someone doesn't say it, then no one can determine if it's hatred or not. So say it, but don't expect everyone to agree with it. That goes for anyone with any belief, say what you think first, the judgment comes after.
     
  2. Eveline

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    Yet despite everything progressive countries have actually created hate speech laws that work. Yes, there are obviously certain boundaries that cannot be crossed and we have a law system to protect people so that people won't be prosecuted when they say that they like gay people because a religious person saw it as offensive. When designing such a law you put contingencies in place to stop people from abusing the law or harrasing others using the law. The argument that a law has a chance to hurt someone innocent can be used with regards to every law. Hate speech laws are written not with the objective of limiting expression in day to day life, they are written so people with power and influence won't use hate speech publically to advance their agenda at the cost of others and turn segments of society against a minority for political or social gain.
     
  3. SillyGoose

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    It's a sociatal cancer from my perspective
     
  4. Secrets5

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    And how does it work if the person in power and influence is also a minority?

    For example, if a woman [minority] becomes prime minister [power] and uses that to promote their gender of an anti - male [majority] society?

    What comes first?
     
  5. Eveline

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    Well, let me ask you this, under your vision of the US is she free to promote such a society? If not then why? If yes then isn't that a very real problem if leaders can turn one segment of our society against another. However, I do agree that hate speech laws should protect everyone, not just minorities. It would be up to our justice system to decide what constitutes hate speech in the same way that they decide about law related problems now. I have to say that some of the objections to hate speech laws seem very close to the type of rhetoric used to attack bathroom protection laws. Asking what if the law is abused? When the reality is that like bathroom protection laws, hate speech laws are already in place in countries and they seem to work perfectly fine.

    Edit: I'm sorry, I think I need to bow out of this discussion. I tend to change my mind every five minutes and I hate arguing. We all have our points of view and they are logical when viewed from our eyes. I prefer not to try and invalidate a person's opinion unless doing so can actually be helpful, I apologize for that. (*hug*)
     
    #45 Eveline, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  6. derVaminoi

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    But that's already a thing even without a woman as prime minister ;P

    Good. Many don't. Because "power plus privilege" supposedly means it only goes one way. It's funny though. Those who use that argument usually have power and privilege themselves, otherwise they wouldn't get that message out. Not so funny however when they claim to speak for every minority and can't imagine a single person of that minority disagreeing with them.
     
    #46 derVaminoi, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  7. thrashgal

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    no, hate speech should be allowed just like non-hate speech..after all banning it would be biased or whatever..the ones who ban it would be the ones whos view point are being pushed upon everyone else: whos to say my idea of "hate" speech would be the same as anyone elses...everybody is entitled to their own opinions and freedoms whether we agree with them or not..what people need to learn is respect; rather than going around blurting about how being gay is wrong or were all going to hell or whatever it is theyre ranting about, they need to learn that their opinions are their opinions but that saying such things is disrespectful and offensive to anothers opinions and therefore they need to mind their own business and keep it to themselves...
     
  8. YuriBunny

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    I don't know how to vote on the poll... I think it should generally be allowed until it becomes a problem.

    People using hate speech must recognize that what they're saying is offensive and be prepared to accept the possible consequences of hurting someone else's feelings.

    If someone, for example, says that gay people should kill themselves, and as a result, several gay people kill themselves, then the person who said this should be held responsible for those deaths, as they were clearly encouraging it.

    On the other hand, if someone says they believe gay marriage is wrong, simply expressing their opinion rather than trying to cause anyone real harm, then they shouldn't receive any sort of punishment for it. Simply having that opinion is not a problem.
     
  9. Chip

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    I think we can look to Canada and what they've done for guidance.

    The US is, as far as I know, the only country in the world with absolutely free speech. But this has caused all sorts of ridiculous problems. The whole corrupt funding of politiical campaigns is a byproduct of an argument (Citizens United) that spending money on ads for a campaign is "free speech." And free speech is what allows the asshats at Westboro Baptist to spew their hatred.

    On the other hand, Canada has nearly free speech, but limits it in certain specific ways. Hate speech is not permitted, and certain other extreme forms of speech are likewise prohibited. THis hasn't negatively impacted their democracy at all, but it has allowed them much more control over people inciting violence and other negative things.

    And in the US, we've restricted speech in various ways already. Students in schools do not have 100% free speech, and it isn't legal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

    On the whole, I'm in support of free speech, but I don't think that limited restrictions on hate speech or other reasonable controls would inevitably lead to a slippery slope of totalitarian governmental rule.
     
  10. Libra Neko

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    It should be allowed as long as it isn't threatening people and their safety.
     
  11. Joelouis

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    Well, as for free speech, I'd say no, it should not be banned.
    Hate speech though, I think has no place in a decent society.

    "Express your views, but keep your vile opinions to yourself".

    If a religious person wants to tell me that his God hates gays, and I'm supposed to accept his opinion of that without reaction, then he should offer me the same courtesy if I suggest that his God is a knob head.
     
    #51 Joelouis, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  12. Multiverse

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    I just hope that people who want to ban a "hate speech", and by the way 'hate speech' is in fact a free speech which certain people don't like, will never get into power(Oops, It's already too late for that)

    The far-left has become the western equivalent of North Korea. And according to this small poll, 45% of people are supportive of that ideology, or aren't sure if they are in support of that ideology, to me, that is simply amazing.
     
  13. iiimee

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    Um, saying that gay people should kill themselves is still an opinion, and hurting somebody's feelings is not a crime. The person who says gay people should kill themselves is in no way responsible if gay people do. Now, there's a different between the guy who says "Gays should be killed." and "Go kill yourself.", and I think it's okay to punish the latter with "hate speech", but even still the latter guy shouldn't be convicted as if he MURDERED the people who killed themselves- Suicide is a self-inflicted crime, and even if somebody says something mean that might have encouraged that person's death, it is ultimately the victim who is the murderer in a suicide case, so we can't convict anyone for someone's suicidal death.

    You CAN react though- that's the beautiful thing about free speech. They can spew whatever they want, and so can you. As long as direct threats aren't made and you're in a place that doesn't limit free speech like a school, everyone can say whatever they please.
     
  14. YuriBunny

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    Er... I'm sorry... I wasn't trying to start a debate or anything, I was just giving my opinion... >.<
     
  15. Falklands Sheep

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    There is no point in censorship. Banning people from voicing their views, as twisted and hateful as they might be, is not a good idea. Let them talk, then give them a witty comeback to shut them down.

    All speech should be allowed. Say what you want, but then don't complain when criticism starts coming your way.
     
  16. radicalmuffins

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    Expressing an opinion without offending anyone is difficult. There will always be people who will think differently. However, I believe that lines should be drawn when it comes to "hate speech". Motives should be investigated. Are they threatening? Do they involve peoples' safety?

    The UK (At least in England and Wales - Scotland is currently working on this, I gather) there is already an existing ban on hate speech and I think it's a good thing. It isn't like North Korea at all. Being conscious of how you say or address people is being civil. What part of hate speech is being civil?

    "I hate all gays" is offensive to some BUT
    "I will ban all gays from this establishment!" is clearly hate speech and not only that, it's also discrimination based on gender.

    "I don't like asians" can be offensive BUT
    "I'm going to kill you, you jap!" is again hate speech and also racist.

    "Your god doesn't exist" another possibly offensive statement BUT
    "You are batshit crazy for believing in a fairy who lives on a cloud" just takes it to another level.

    There are levels that are "okay" but clearly if you think the latter is okay, then you need to reevaluate your own views and morals because there might be something wrong with you

    Don't get me wrong though, freedom of speech is cool but it can only go so far before it turns into a bloody exchange.
     
  17. biAnnika

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    If you're LGBT, chances are you've had the experience of feeling something really intensely and feeling unable or unsafe to talk about it. That shit sucks and it's not healthy...not to mention dangerous.

    Don't wish that on haters. We have no right to expect to be protected from being offended.
     
  18. Reciprocal

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    The best reaction to hate speech is to argue back. Provided it's not slanderous or a personal attack, no opinion should be wrong or illegal, no matter how unjustified. We often underestimate the importance of free speech. It's part of our democracy.
     
  19. Multiverse

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    Who will decide what is "hate speech": You? Me? Government? ISIS? LGBT community? Religious communities? North Korea? Or who..?

    It seems to me that a hate speech is only an attempt to limit or ban a free speech which certain people do not like. Who will decide what is hate speech, because if I ask LGBT community, ISIS, government, religious communities and North Korea to tell me what is hate speech, each of them will give me different answers.
     
  20. A Mindful Wolf

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    It depends. In some countries, theocracies for example, anything said against the state religion is considered blasphemous or hateful and you will be punished for it. Also free speech and incitement are different things.

    ---------- Post added 18th Jun 2016 at 02:02 PM ----------

    Opinions can definitely be wrong lol, say, for example, I was of the opinion grass is made of chocolate. That is wrong. And stupid.

    ---------- Post added 18th Jun 2016 at 02:04 PM ----------

    "You are batshit crazy for believing in a fairy who lives on a cloud" just takes it to another level.

    I would consider this totally within the parameters of freedom of speech. Herein lies the problem - who do you let decide what is hateful? That isn't hateful, it's expressing an opinion that you have no right to be protected from being offended by it.
    Also that isn't even close to the level of the second example you gave for others.
    How about this:

    "Your god doesn't exist" another possibly offensive statement BUT
    "We are going to round you up and commit genocide upon people of your faith because it is different from ours :grin:, and we encourage everyone of our religion to follow suit!"
     
    #60 A Mindful Wolf, Jun 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016