1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tipping the scales

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by baristajedi, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I'm trying to work through some things... and I don't know where to start.

    So, for a while now, just for thinking purposes, I've been trying to separate the issues in my marriage from my needs related to being queer, to make my feelings more clear.

    And I guess in doing that, I thought I'd managed to find some clarity - in terms of my orientation, to put it simply, I need to explore my needs in that area, and eventually, it's my plan to make changes in my marriage, either trying to open up our marriage or to separate.

    In terms of my marriage, I was starting to feel that we've gotten past the hardest and biggest issues in our relationship. And that if opening the marriage was right and could work for us, our marriage could be successful.

    But -- earlier today, I started opening up to my sister about a lot of the problems that have built up between me and my husband through the years, lack of communication, not feeling like a team, not feeling like he contributed enough, feeling like my career and my needs weren't supported. And in talking about it, two things sort of just came to the surface. For one, I mentioned over and over that we'd gotten past so much of that, and those things were drastically improving, but talking about made me realise just how angry I still am. And second, this overwhelming feeling like my heart just isn't in this marriage anymore, because I felt like I'd fought for it so long, but I can't seem to feel invested anymore.

    It left me wondering - which feelings are driving which? Obviously, I'm queer, and that is just the way it is because it's part of me. That's not in question. But I do wonder about the reasons about where my heart is being pulled.

    Is my acknowledgment of my sexuality a driving factor in my heart being just "not in the marriage" anymore, or on the contrary, does the hole in our marriage drive me to want to seek connection elsewhere, and because I'm opening up to this side of myself, I'm being pulled towards being with a woman?

    Essentially I'm wondering whether the issues in my marriage are tipping the scales towards decisions related to my sexuality or whether my sexuality is tipping the scales in terms of my lack of investment in my marriage.

    It's not easy to articulate because I'm just now recognising just how many intense emotions still remain in terms of anger towards my husband and feeling like things have always been unequal and that we've always been incompatible.

    I don't know if it matters, but I guess I'd like to understand where my needs come from.

    Does anyone have any insight? Does anyone relate?
     
  2. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Just for the record, this doesn't change my needs in terms of being queer. I need to be in touch with that part of myself, and that means the changes I've started identifying are necessary.


    I guess I'm just surprised at my anger and resentment at my husband, and I want to look at that a bit more.
     
  3. dirtyshirt84

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    271
    Location:
    London
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I can definitely relate.

    Do you think it might be a combination of both these factors - a desire to acknowledge your sexuality and not feeling fulfilled by your marriage - that has caused you to seek out radical change? Rather than one driving the other?

    I have realised since becoming attracted to my crush that I just cant be all that happy in my relationship with my husband otherwise I would never have liked someone else so much. I have also realised there are definitely other issues in our relationship that are unrelated to my sexuality. I think there is definitely a lack of emotional intimacy for one.
     
  4. brians34

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2016
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    barista, have you thought any about discussing with your husband a trial separation?

    See if he would be ok with a few months separation to see where the feelings lie. This would give you both plenty of time to get an understanding and a bit of relief apart. It will give you time to breathe and think about what truly matters to you without a cloud hanging overhead.

    I'm in the stages of trying to get my wife back on her feet financially and if/when she starts back up to work, my mind is still where it is, I am going to suggest that for us.
     
  5. scouse

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I can relate to some of what you're saying. Looking back to the time I ended my relationship with my ex, I was tired of trying, so much so that my heart wasn't in it. For the last 12 months of the relationship I'd also been experiencing an increasingly pervasive need to explore my sexuality. Sadly, my ex actually came to me weeks after we separated, wanting to make another go of things, saying all the things I'd needed him to say before I lost heart. And I believed him, but by that point, I'd had the freedom I'd needed to hear myself. I'd realised that I had zero interest in men and had not had for some time, wanted to spend my life with a woman and that it felt more right than anything ever had. In short, I'd accepted I was gay. *Queue uplifting music*

    I've often wondered since what was really driving me.

    I've had no intentions whatsoever of projecting here, this was just my experience. With lots and lots of shitty, horrible emotions thrown into it. I still have no clarity on which was the true driving force behind my actions. I know that in my head at the time the relationship problems were my reason for ending things, but my thoughts around my orientation were also becoming so strong and unsettling.. it is difficult to imagine that I'd have stayed content, even in an otherwise perfect relationship, for much longer.

    I hope you find your clarity, whatever it may be.
     
  6. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I can relate to what all of your are saying.

    I was so close to getting out of my marriage. In my case, I can just walk out the door. No kids, we each own our own house, separate finances etc. Practically could text her "done".

    I was ready for her to say all of the wrong things when I confronted her. But, she didn't and a part of me was disappointed. I wanted out, I wanted to run down to my "crush" and shout "I'm free". I wanted it to be her fault.

    But, I also knew I could never find someone like her again (man or woman), I love our life together and our future plans. I even thought about just asking for a time out...a trial separation.

    What I decided was that I needed to make things as good with her as I can, be as open as I can, then decide if I really need to explore my same sex desires. I was worried I was using my same sex attractions as an excuse to get out of the marriage. So, I am working on rekindling my relationship. So far, it is working better than expected. But, there is still a lingering disappointment that I will not be involved with another man.

    Bisexuals should get a "pass" we can use a couple times in our lives when we really need everything else just to freeze in place while we go on a "walkabout".
     
  7. brians34

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2016
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Nick, a gay bucket list of sorts huh? :slight_smile:

    I share many of the feelings you do. I wanted her to be mad, throw me out, yell, scream, etc. Instead she cried, told me she loved me, didn't want to lose me, didn't know what she'd do without me. Total guilt feeling rush.

    I love her and care so much about her and I'm like you, I don't know that I will ever find anyone as caring or thoughtful to me as she is. But then, you have those other yearnings and desires. I sit sometimes feeling trapped. Not knowing which way to turn or which way to go.
     
  8. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Brian

    I think what it comes down to is what we really NEED in order to be happy. I hesitate to use the word fulfilled because that is such a subjective word.

    I have often thought about how important same sex sexual fulfillment is to me. I once made a list of my desires...to ski, mountain bike, climb, screw guys etc. It turns out I put same sex quite aways down on the list. So, I decided uprooting MY whole life for this does not make a lot of sense.

    BUT, I can have a very intense relationship with a woman (my wife) I can feel sparks and yearning and deep desire. Those are very important things. Not having that would make anything else on my list less important because my life would have less meaning in general.

    If you cannot feel that way with your wife, or any woman, then it is not about "bucket lists", it is about your soul or your being. It is about your identity.
     
  9. Katchoo

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Jedi,

    You're doing a really great job identifying your feels and being intentional about sorting out what's under them. Sorry I don't have a magc answer for you, but it sounds like you're on the right track to figure it out for yourself. Great job!
     
  10. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Maybe you're right, perhaps these issues can't be separated. It's really hard to tease out even why I came out when I did. I didn't have a trigger. I just had this aspect of myself hanging in front of me for so long, and it started to feel like my life was drifting so far from me and my needs.

    If I think about it, the timing really matches most closely with a point in which I was gaining a greater sense of space away from being a mom. I was able to distract myself from being queer my whole life by creating different things to focus on... the latest being my motherhood, I was able to throw myself fully into it, but then as my daughter became more independent and I could think about me again, I realised my life was so incongruent with the life I really wanted. If I was being true to me, there were a lot of things I'd pushed away for myself or lost the opportunity to do or be or enjoy, and I was just tired of not being me.

    Somehow, I got away from your response and got into a new tangent...sorry.

    ---------- Post added 1st Apr 2016 at 02:43 PM ----------

    I'm leaning heavily towards getting a separation. At this point, there are financial things and other logistics to consider. But I think that there may be a need to just make the decision and just figure out the details. I'm just not sure yet if it's the right step. And I wish we lived near family if we were going to make that kind of change. But it may just be something we have to work out.

    ---------- Post added 1st Apr 2016 at 02:50 PM ----------

    So much of your story parallels mine. I guess that I'm still in a questioning stage though, not sure that I'm gay. But these two things, my marriage, and my sexuality are coming to a head at once.

    But what you're saying makes me think, maybe the driving force doesn't matter. There are many reasons I've gotten to this emotional point, and my instincts keep driving me in the direction of finding meaningful connection with a woman. Does it mean I'm gay? I don't know just now. Does it mean I don't love my husband, or that our relationship can't fill my needs? I don't know...

    ---------- Post added 1st Apr 2016 at 02:51 PM ----------



    ---------- Post added 1st Apr 2016 at 02:56 PM ----------

    I think at this point, I'm just not in that mindset of being able to focus on my husband.

    It sounds like you have a good thing with your wife, I'm glad you found a good path with her.

    But one thing you said - there is still a lingering disappointment that I will not be involved with another man - does this create a lot of sadness/lack of fulfillment for you?

    For me, the thought of never being involved with a woman is.... well it feels like it wouldn't be a full life.

    ---------- Post added 1st Apr 2016 at 03:00 PM ----------

    This bit of what you say, this captures a lot of what I'm trying to get a better sense of for me. I feel strongly that my orientation, my need to be with a woman is about my soul or my being. I'm not sure yet though, if I cannot feel that way with my husband or any other man.

    I'm starting to feel though that it doesn't matter, knowing the first part is enough to know that I have a need that can't be ignored.

    ---------- Post added 1st Apr 2016 at 03:01 PM ----------

    Thanks. I do feel like I'm on a good path to gaining clarity. It's unfolding slowly but surely.

    ---------- Post added 1st Apr 2016 at 03:02 PM ----------

    (*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)
     
    #10 baristajedi, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  11. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Jedi wrote

    Focusing on my wife sort of brought me out of trying to figure out what my needs are and going back and forth. Because, honestly, if I could not focus on my wife that would have been defining. I would have been out of the marriage...because that is what I feel a marriage should be. My wife lost her focus on me, and me her, and that was about the end.

    I can "settle" without sex with a man. I am mid-fifties though. I have had the most fantastic life you can imagine up till the last couple years. And, it did not have a man in it. So, I know what I NEED to be happy. Want is a different thing. This is what is so weird for me...if I did do something with a man, I would want to run home to my wife and share the whole thing with her. I want my bisexuality to be part of my marriage. I did share the details when the "crush" propositioned me and it was very fulfilling to share how I felt with her. Obviously, I am on this forum because something is lacking and I am searching for ways to fulfill it. My original post was "I want it all".
     
  12. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone

    I completely understand where you're coming from. I have been trying to approach the same questions in the same way, ie "do I have a want vs a need?". In my case my conclusion is coming out on the other side, it feels more like a need.

    I do think perhaps I can have a fulfilling life if I were able to do what you mention, going out and meeting women and sharing that with my husband. But I'm not sure that I really could. That's where my uncertainty lies right now.
     
    #12 baristajedi, Apr 2, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
  13. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Jedi

    Straight husband here. If my wife wanted to go out and experiment with other women it would be a huge turn on for me.

    Gay husband here. If my wife wanted to go out and experiment with other women I would support her on her path to fulfillment.

    Gay part is nicer...but, the answer is the same. You need to talk to your husband about how you can make this work because it is not working for you now. From what I am reading, you NEED to be with a woman; it is beyond a WANT. Sorry to be so blunt.

    This can be about your husband's needs too. If there is anyway to increase the intimacy with him during this discovery process, it may make this easier. (straight husband here). I would not want to be left out while my wife went on the "walkabout".
     
  14. cakepiecookie

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Yes, I can relate, though my situation was a bit different. We had a ton of problems, so many that my sexuality didn't really even have a chance to come up because there were so many more pressing issues. My marriage needed to end regardless of my sexuality. Then again, I also can't pretend that it was completely irrelevant.

    I don't think you should necessarily try to separate your sexuality from other factors. If your sexuality makes you feel like you have less reason to fight for your marriage, then that's just how it is. You can separate things in your mind if that makes them easier to understand, but you'll have to base your decisions off how everything ties in together.
     
  15. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Ah, Nickw, I wish my straight husband was even a little bit like this. As a straight husband, he is not even slightly turned on by the idea of me with another woman. It makes him feel threatened. He doesn't see it any differently than me with another man. My loving concerned husband, however, wants to be supportive of my growth and my needs. And for this reason he's trying to stretch his perspective, and trying to be open to it.

    And there's another issue here. I only know what my needs are up to a certain point. I've never been with a woman. I know this is a need for me, but what I don't know is -- will I be satisfied with merely being with women on the side? Even if I can build meaningful relationships with women, FWB I guess, I still wonder if it will be enough. Some part of me, wonders just like my husband does, would I want to leave my husband to have more?

    Also I want to incorporate my husband's needs and increase our intimacy, but right now I feel so... distant emotionally. I don't know how to motivate myself to feel close to my husband again.

    I'm really indecisive about my marriage right now. And that's where alot of these chaos of emotions are coming from.

    What I am decisive about however, is my personal needs. I am going to fulfill my needs with women, whether it be through open marriage or separation. I decided that only recently, but it's something I feel very strongly about. I can't pretend this is not something I need. I can't fulfill it through flirtation, through porn, through fantasy. It's not sustainable. I need more.

    ---------- Post added 2nd Apr 2016 at 06:52 AM ----------


    I'm glad you moved on, it sounds like you really needed it.

    Maybe you're right, I don't know why I feel the need to untangle these things. I think on some level I feel like it makes the truth more muddy to look at all the things combined.

    My husband also has this tendency to think he can just fix everything if he is the best husband ever, or gets me to focus on us. And when I look at the issues separately it helps me to maintain a clear reasoning why that may not be enough or how to approach each issue to consider how we can come to the right answers.
     
  16. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Baristajedi

    I am not expert on being bisexual. We're a secretive group, so we don't get to often share what goes on inside.

    For me, while the attractions to either sex can be similar, there is room for both in my core. I can see integrating my same sex needs into my marriage. But, I cannot see ending my marriage only because of that. If I did not want to work on the emotional side of intimacy with my spouse because of same sex needs I would seriously consider that I was gay and not bi. I don't know if that is very clear.

    There may be other issues in your relationship with your husband that are unrelated to your sexuality. My advice is you need to look at that separately and try to leave the gay out of it. My therapist after the first venting session got me to quit analyzing my sexual orientation and start addressing my issues with my marriage.
     
    #16 Nickw, Apr 2, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
  17. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    This is is one of my big questions --- I think I may be gay. It really is not clear to me just yet though. I have never been with a woman. I keep thinking instinctively, that is likely the truth. But how can I say that having only been with men...it's something I need to let myself discover, and I'm working on that.

    In terms of working on the marriage issues, what you;re saying is what my husband keeps saying. But I just want more than anything to work on my issues. I know that sounds unfair, but I know this part of me needs to be valued and to be explored. And so I guess that keeps me from working on the marriage as a first priority.