Hello. I haven't posted here in awhile.

Hey Nerdbrain (nice name) a lot of what your describing sounds like depression. Check this out. If it resonates, it might be that an illness is keeping you form being able to act.

https://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_solomon_depression_the_secret_we_share#t-9313

 

You will figure this out before the Senate does anything.

Nerdbrain, you were very helpful to me when you validated my feelings that it might be justified if I looked elsewhere when my wife would not have sex with me. You also suggested we work on intimacy. It was good to have both thoughts come from the same person since it did validate what I sort of knew. And, things are getting better with intimacy with my wife...there are still some issues...thanks.

Your story pains me. I am not sure I see issues so much with your sexuality (what do I know about that stuff) as with your loneliness. Your wife filled that void. So, as I am sure you know, you cannot get to a healthy attitude about sex unless there is someone to have it with...over simplified? FWIW, I can get totally turned on by a guy with no thought of the mechanics of sex with him...bottom, top, sideways...whatever.

I am bi; will stay monogamous but like to be around men. So, I try and talk to guys...any guys...young, old, rednecks, hippies. Sort of do the same with women. I have no expectations that anything will come of it. But, in the last year, I was propositioned twice by women and one guy and I wasn't looking for sex. I am just an average 45 ish (looking) man and am really a bit shy by nature.

So, you have to get out. No one will come to you. The best place, IMO, to meet men is bike riding groups. Plus, there is some eye candy! And, it is healthy. I suspect there are groups near you that have weekly rides. There may be other activities that are similar.

Just my two cents as you said once "from an anonymous internet poster". Take care.

Hey. Just read your other post. I wonder if you would be better off bi. Apparently, we can just switch it up anytime, have no morals and are completely indecisive anyway (I am being sarcastic here). Point is that there is no reason to define yourself...just be yourself.

 

Funny isn't it. We can come up with solutions that are much easier for others to follow than for us.

I think you nailed it in your critique of your own post. I would avoid starting any conversation where the expectation is that sex will result. Because, it will disappoint you 95% of the time. Even if it gets to sex, is that the person you want to do it with?

When I was just about being a bad boy with a CL hookup, I went to a bar and sat down next to this guy who I thought might be the one I was to meet. Not at all. Just a straight guy who it turns out was really great and we are planning on getting together...totally platonic to do some riding. We had so much fun talking, I forgot about my hookup! Someday we may get close enough that we can joke about it. So, made a friend at the very least (or best really).

Sorry about the biking lead...you may need to move to Colorado!

 

If you're pretty good at helping people, why don't you reply to this guy? He seems stuck and needs a fresh perspective. I started a reply and don't have time to finish.

It seems to me that he's leading himself on more than his wife. What do you think?

How convenient and safe for him to say that he's uncertain about his sexuality when he doesn't even try. How would you advise him?

Sounds like this guy needs a proof that doing nothing isn't going to resolve anything. What do you think? What can we say to get this guy off his ass and another guy into it?

 

Your wife is just as responsible for allowing herself to be strung along as you are for doing the stringing. I have such a hard time understanding why you would do something so destructive to someone you claim to love so much. If you really love her, than put her needs above your own needs to calm your fears of being alone and let her go. Stop seeing her until she has a chance to get over you. She deserves to be in a mutually fulfilling relationship. And so do you. If you are in NYC why don't you go to the institute of human identity for therapy-they have gay affirming therapists and group therapy for gay people. Or you can go to the drop in peer counseling from the identity house at the gay lesbian and transgender community center. They see people like you all the time.

 

Hi Nerdbrain,

I don't think you need to stop seeing your wife, but I do think you should stop sleeping with her, no matter how much comfort it brings to you both (and yes, I realize there's no sex involved). It seems to me that as long as there's a degree of real intimacy in your relationship, it will be difficult for you to pull the plug. Perhaps you could meet at a neutral place for dinner or a drink and avoid visiting each other's domicile for a time.

As far as gaining a better understanding of your sexuality goes, I think MS001's advice is solid. Either therapy or a peer counseling group may help. The peer counseling group I belong to has an active social side to it as well — I've made many friends in the gay community through our activities, which include potlucks, bar nights, movies, etc. Because to some extent, we have all opened up to each other in our counseling sessions, our friendships tend to be deeper than those I've developed with members of other mere interest groups (such as your bicycling club).

 

(*hug*)

I might not be one to give advice (life's currently a slow motion train wreck atm) but the twilight zone of not-being is pure hell. All you see are bad choices and hope feels like a sunset beyond a dirty window. There is nothing worse than a choice you really don't want to make.

To be honest without this forum's chiding I would still be exactly there. I wish I could sell the happy notion of "it gets better" but it does get freer, if that makes sense. And it is not fatal.

Hope this doesn't sound preachy (because I'm afraid it will) but as Hunter S. Thompson
said. "A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance."

I mean what will happen if you DON'T move forward? Either she gets fed up with you and leaves -- the choice decided -- or you settle back into a marriage -- the choice decided.

You are a living person. You have the right to your own choices. You have the right not to live at the whim of a fickle and spiteful universe. You have the rights to wants and needs.

Maybe reframing the question would help? Rather than giving up A or B, which would you rather embrace? And what sub questions would you need to answer for yourself to be content with that choice?

What would answer that for you? A hookup? I'm not one to recommend breaking the law but I remember Dr. Savage recommending a guy seeking out a male prostitute for this very reason.

I guess my point is would answering that question give you the clarity you need? Or is the answer the very thing you're dreading?

(*hug*)

Hang in there.

PC

 

The toughest part of your situation to me would be the figuring out if I'm more into guys or not. I know I am more into guys. I see guys on the train or street and think "hey, I'd like to hit that." Now I don't really see guys and think man I'd like to date that, and I think if I end up in the dating world, that would be the difficulty I'd have to come to terms with. But I'm already there with knowing that my attraction to guys is real and strong and more powerful than my attraction to women (sexually speaking).

How do you figure that out? My gut suggestion is you go out and have sex with guys. Just like how my fears of dating guys, I feel like, will only be conquered by dating guys. But I know you've done this and it hasn't answered your questions. So I'm not really sure what to suggest from there.

When you've gone off with the mindset of being gay - not for sexual purposes, but in making friends and such - how has that made you feel? Did you feel like you belonged? Did it become something you could identify with? And perhaps on the other side of that coin, how do you feel when you're being "straight?"

It's extremely hard for me to say "you should do this" when I know I can relate to you in a lot of ways in terms of the fears of letting your wife go. And you actually have/had a completely happy relationship with your wife, which I can't say the same for myself. So I hope I can at least help with some questions since I lack with sound advice.

 

Nerdbrain - After my wife split from me, I retreated into a safe zone for several years. I tried dating, off-and-on during that time, but had little emotional enthusiasm for it. What made *ALL* the difference for me was finding a new group of friends. It took time for that to happen, and I basically stumbled into the network I found, but, wow, am I ever thankful.

My suggestion would be to forget about trying to figure everything out for a while and instead focus on LIVING. Pursue your interests and find like-minded people. Check out Meet-Up and post a friends-only profile on the dating website that starts OK. Look for LGBT social groups on the Internet and on Craigslist. If you have the capacity to host social events, do so.

I've found that I tend to click with other men who have been married to women and those who have kids. Other single bi and guys who are in those situations are, generally, eager to find similar friends. Whoever you tend to click with, reach out to similar people on a platonic basis and you're pretty much certain to make some really awesome friends. Once you do, it's all sunshine and rainbows from there.

 

Wow

That's a lot of pressure to put on a casual encounter isn't it? A lot of us could not perform under those circumstances. Put the ahem "shoe" on the other foot. Was being able to have sex with your wife confirmation that you were straight?

Does your wife know you are looking for such an encounter as an affirmation of your sexuality and is she O.K. with your marriage depending on this?

You are putting way too much emphasis on defining WHAT you are. Maybe understanding WHO you are is a better approach.

 

NB - Please tell me if my interpretation of your words is wrong, but it looks to me like the "real" Catch-22 is that, in your heart-of-hearts, you know you are gay but your internalized homophobia is so strong that you don't know if you can ever live that way.

This is a *very* common problem, not easily overcome.

Complicating matters is that you are unwilling to be completely honest with the person you love most, even if the cost to her is tremendous and the years lost are irreplaceable.

This is also a very common problem, one that most guys "resolve" by secretly cheating.

Hallelujah that you're better than that! Yet the fact remains that you have TWO problems, not one. Overcoming deeply rooted homophobia is a long-term challenge, however, making the moral decision to do the right thing by the person you love most is something that can be resolved within just a few minutes.

Your wife deserves to know the complete truth so that she has the opportunity to decide how her (one and only) life will play out.

Self-determination is a fundamental right, one that we treasure for ourselves more than almost anything.

Perhaps telling her exactly how you feel will be the catharsis you need. It may unburden you of a tremendous amount of guilt, thereby lightening your load and making it possible for you to deal with your homophobia more directly.

 

Nerdbrain

Why not accept that you might be a bisexual? Not that it would make things easier necessarily. My biggest problem with being bi is that I did not share this with my wife. You may have that chance. I don't know if you saw my post in Baristajedi's thread on my bisexuality (clearly different emotions with men and women). I think it is different for different folks.

Frankly, I enjoy my attraction to men. Frustrating? Yes. But, the alternative is not to have that part of me and that is also not an option.

It may be harder to maintain a marriage when you are bi. But, I know plenty of middle age guys chasing young women around so I am not sure anyone, of any orientation, is immune from those risks.

Are you still sexually attracted to your wife? I mean like a fantasy of her body can excite you? Not just the other intimacy (that's good too of course). Is she hot for you?

 

So are you suggesting that your gayness is caused by OCD or that your internalized homophobia and shame is so deep as to paralyze you in your tracks?

 

Nerdbrain

It seems to me that making any decisions about labeling yourself while you are anxious and depressed does not seem like a good idea.

I assume your wife knows you are struggling with your sexuality yet has waited two years? She must have very deep feelings for you.

I think I am missing part of the info here. You love your wife, would like to have sex with her just for sex sake, other intimacy with her is desired, like fantasy guys, don't like gay sex (so far), haven't found a guy you are attracted to (discerning tastes in men?)

You could be me! The difference is that I like my man desires and recognize those desires are only a part of my whole sexual self.

This is the quandary that faces some bisexuals. Having our "Jake" and "Edith" too. I don't know how to do that! Yet.