LGBT News Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhood

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Caitlyn doesn't have male privilege- she has celebrity privilege.

Whatever the case, I think this UppercaseCHASE1 video should sort things out. It's kind of long, but it explains a lot.

[YOUTUBE]rbkP5BEUkkI[/YOUTUBE]

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Look, I don't know much about Rose (I heard she was a long-time LGBT ally), aside from her role on Jawbreaker, but after her comments on gay men dancing naked on floats, or being more homophobic than straight men, I'm starting to think she's overstepping here. Now she's holding Jenner to a higher standard and implying she's not a "real" woman.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Caitlyn has millionaire privilege, white privilege, and look privilege.

What she said lacked substance and was just a transphobic rant by a typical western feminist. Lacking in real problems, she's manufacturing the myth of a trans woman feminizing herself with the aim of raping women - that's really what this boils down to.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Caitlyn Jenner, but none of them are included in her rant.

To gravechild's point, what she said about LGBT pride rallies has more substance. I know of plenty of homosexuals who hate that aspect of the LGBT movement because they worry it's too sexualized. Is it her place to say it? I think not.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Firstly let's talk about the "male privilege". No scrap that, let's talk about the concept of "privilege" (as thrown around constantly by some feminists and SJWs) full stop.

There is no universal test for privilege ('d make it flash in glittery lights if I could), nor is their a dedicated quota system that can be applied easily to see just how privileged someone is.

For example, due to homophobia many gay men (especially effeminate gay men) may essentially receive little privilege due to being a man (some of the possible benefits of being a man could arguably be outweighed by some of the possible social negatives of being gay). It is entirely subjective though - some privileges can cancel out or accentuate others. You could theoretically have a non-cis black woman who is greater privileged than a heterosexual white male due to other factors like location of residence, family/inherited wealth, health, looks, ableness, mental health etc etc etc.

Now in Jenner's case, perhaps you could argue she may have had certain privileges due to being a bio man (although her trans status may have nullified or reduced these if she did not feel like a real man and so did not "exercise" these privileges). She obviously experienced privileges due to her able body (she was an athlete of course) and wealth, but that is by the by in this argument.

But if if she did carry some privileges from being a man can we say as a transwoman Jenner has male privilege now? Not really as she no longer looks like a man (looks are also a potential privilege), or is recognised as one.

*PAUSE FOR A BREATHER*

NOW, now that's out of the way, let's look at the jist of Rose McGowan's rant. It appears Rose mainly takes issue to the idea of Jenner having experience as a woman. She is correct that Jenner was never actively raised as a woman, and has not had a lifetime living openly as a woman. Jenner has therefore missed out on certain experiences most women face, and obviously a few of the biological experiences (i.e. not having periods). HOWEVER, Jenner has lived a life with the identity of a woman.

So whilst life experience is different (Rose has experienced things Caitlyn never will, and vice versa), that identity of feeling like a woman is shared, and that is the case regardless of when or whether that person transitions.

Does that mean Caitlyn has a "lesser" experience as a woman? I don't think so, it is just a "different experience". If a bio woman was raised on a farm as a "tomboy" or due to health problems didn't have periods - does that mean she has less right to call herself a woman? Of course not.

I'd disagree with that video in parts. He is suggesting that the prominence of Jenner means she has to represent all trans people well. I think that is a bit of an unfair burden. It would be "nice" if Caitlyn represented trans people well, but should it be demanded? And is she really doing anything that damaging to the trans community anyway? I'd say no.

The vlogger mentioned it being an "Ellen moment". Now of course Ellen is a fantastic role model (love her), but let's say she did drugs or got in a fight or disagreed with an aspect of gay rights or a gay person. Would she have "let the community down"? No, she would have just be exercising her right to live her life how she wants.

I don't personally feel represented by every gay celebrity (or any really), and that is fine.

I think what she said about Pride was her implying gay people didn't need gay rights or ally support, or at least were doing better off than women. Basically she was saying "look at them partying, clearly they are doing fine, so why should we care about their rights? We need to help women more!". Obviously a stupid argument - even the most oppressed (be they white, black, women, men, gay, straight, etc) may party or crack a smile occasionally - does that mean everything is hunkydory?

Plus that rant went on to say gay men are more misogynistic than straight men which is beyond laughable. Because statistically, who do you think pose a bigger problem for women, gay men or straight/bi men? Do we really believe that a greater percentage of gay men rape/attack/harrass women than straight men? Of course not. The sexual incentive (the main motive) of these attacks is removed for gay men.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Can I point out that whilst homosexual men were put in prison and other horrible things for, yet homosexual women were allowed to be. Reference. BBC iPlayer - Tyger Takes On... - Series 2: 1. How Straight Am I?

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Honestly, because of her money and celebrity status, I don't think there's a whole lot about Caitlyn Jenner that can be applied to the experience of the average trans person or the average woman either one, or probably the average bio man for that matter, which makes this sort of rant kind of pointless.

I find a lot of things about Jenner to be problematic, but most of them don't have much at all to do with being trans or a bio male. I do wish she would think a bit more before she says some of thing she says and re-examine some of her politics and such, since she is getting so much attention as some sort of role model, but she is what she is.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Sometimes I wonder why can't a person just live their life in peace.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

I don't think that Jenner isn't a real woman, I just think that she has a lot to learn. And I'm sorry to say it, but her being a conservative plays into it as well. That interview on Ellen about her being a "traditionalist" and how she's only okay with marriage equality now makes it look like she's only okay with it because it affects her now, because she's out and living as her authentic self. Maybe I'm being harsh, but I don't see how any empowered woman these days can call themselves a Republican and stand behind those who are looking to make it near impossible to get contraceptives or Plan B, abortions, if needed, equal pay, etc.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

We live in a world where people are going to vote for Trump....so, we can't further confuse said people by saying "you need to accept trans people - just not rich, white, privileged, and/or celebrity trans people."

No, Caitlyn is not the average trans person but she still is a trans person. We cannot forget that.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

I still don't know or really care who catilyn jenner is...

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

She was extremely beautiful in Charmed. That's all I'm going to say.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Judging by her comments, I see Rose McGowan as the face of transphobia and homophobia within the feminist movement. I don't see her as an ally.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

Never heard of this Rose McGowan character...is she some kinda Disney Teen Star gone bad, or something??? She looks kinda bitter/mean/stuck-up/rich, when I peeked on Google.

In some ways, I am very happy that the mention of most current celebrities just brings about a giant blank.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

I don't even know who Rose McGowan is and you know I don't really want to.

 

Re: Rose McGowan bashes Jenner 4 having male privilage and not understanding womanhoo

bruce jenner was one good looking guy though.