General News Donald Trump Proposes "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the U.S."

If he wants to "make america great again" maybe start by stopping gun rage in there. I don't know the numbers but I bet more ppl die from gun shooting from americans than to terror attacks, at least in USA ... that bring back the thought that ppl always try to blame others for bad things happening, just not to blame themselves. :X

 

Comparing ISIS, the Taliban, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda and all the other Islamist militant groups to some random criminals living in the US who happen to be Christian is extraordinarily hilarious. It's like comparing a meteor to a pebble.

 

With the greatest of respect, what about organisations like the KKK? They claim to be Christians and yet they havent contributed to the mass stereotyping of an entire group of people, and yet it happens to Muslims because of radicalist groups such as Daesh. Heck, the KKK haven't even been labelled a terrorist organisation even though that is what they are.

 

With the greatest of respect likewise, I already have heard that argument and definitely an organization like KKK to be even compared to say ISIS, is entirely ludicrous. I wouldn't even compare it with the most mediocre Islamist group. It wasn't even terrorism as we know it today - where the entire world ends up having to look over its shoulder. The KKK definitely weren't terrorists notwithstanding what they did was repulsive.

Furthermore the KKK was influential during a time when there was little respect for human life. This perception started to change after WWII.

Islam is associated with people getting killed in various ways. It happens so often, that a one-time thing like KKK is automatically forgotten and not even calculated. It happens so often that we are desensitized to it and dead people just become a number so it feels so much easier to argue in favour of minority rights and poo poo the real issue. Christianity had it's moment long before that and it was called ''the Dark Ages'' for a reason. So no, I disagree with you entirely.

I also just googled ''suicide blast'' randomly and this came up from 3 days ago:
Triple suicide attack 'kills 27 on Lake Chad island'

Oh and in case you might miss it, they weren't Christian.

Since 9/11, the current toll is 27,397 attacks in the name of Islam. I didn't say Muslim people killing other people over other things - since that is not the issue here. Hundreds of millions were killed in the name of Islam alone.

At the end of the day, the problem is education.

 

The KKK definitely were a terrorist group. They were terrorizing black citizens and anyone who supported their rights.

For Christians to terrorize anyone is totally against the teachings of Jesus who said Love your enemies. Turn the other cheek. Forgive those who wrong you 70 x 7 which means infinitely. We ought to be the most open to accepting refugees of any group on the face of the planet. I see Canadian Christians are stepping up and doing just that. I trust American Christians will also, although I'm not nearly as confident in them. Can you claim you are a Christian and turn your back on the poor and oppressed, regardless of their religion?

I honestly have not heard a single remark against Syrian refugees coming from anyone I know of any Canadian Christian denomination, nor a single Christian leader, pastor or priest in Canada. In fact, I've only heard two people I know in the past YEAR say we shouldn't allow in Muslim refugees... family, friends, acquaintances. I mean, these are our VALUES right? to desire freedom and safety and basic human rights for all people. The odd bad lone wolf who may slip in... we'll deal with them.

I agree with educating ourselves. Google list of terrorist organizations in the world and look at how much terrorism has increased since the 1980's and where these groups operate and have arisen from.

 

Why is it that we always hear about Muslims blowing people up, and never, say, Jews or Hindus? I'm not a big fan of Donald Trump (although I don't take pleasure in hating him) but recent events have made me incredibly sceptical of the Islamic religion and whether their values can truly be in keeping with Western society. I'm not racist, I'm just curious and sceptical.

 

Not under international criminal law - which is the case with Islamist groups and to name another example, cross-border drug trafficking or human trafficking. In the KKK's case you'd find breaches of domestic law which at the time the KKK was most active, was poorly developed.

^ Exactly, but you can't open your trap these days without being called a 'bigot'. Regarding Trump, he basically says the things most people would be uncomfortable to say in public but it is easy to understand what the concern is all about. It shouldn't come as much of a shocker either with some Arab countries refusing to allow Christians access and persecuting any Christians that are already there in hiding.

 

I agree there is something not so great going on in Islam at this time in history, and the Muslims who are not extremists need to figure this out because it's looking to outsiders right now like Islam is the bane of human existence. Polls and surveys are saying that far too many Muslims are supportive of violence. Too many Muslim countries are at war and/or violating human rights. Not just Muslim against Christian, but Muslim against Muslim. It must be very disturbing to the progressive Muslims. Stop blaming the West for all your problems, and start finding some peaceful solutions for all your conflicting factions and tribes.

May I hasten to add the following to be fair to American Muslims... this was done in 2013 I believe. Trump doesn't quote these stats, does he?!!

Polls have found Muslim-Americans to report less violent views than any other religious group in America. 89% of Muslim-Americans claimed that the killing of civilians is never justified, compared to 71% of Catholics and Protestants, 75% of Jews, and 76% of atheists and non-religious groups.[320] These stats do not speak well of American Christians, do they?

 

Not only is this just a really horrific thing to say in general, but look at how this has gone over in history - how many times have we screwed up as a county and done something like this and PROVEN that it was never the answer? Heck, the same can be said for the world!

He's nuts - he really has a LOT of problems, but I think the people who follow him and think he's the best thing since Betty White are 10x more horrific. We can at least keep an eye on Trump, but we can't keep an eye on the hundreds of thousands of crazies that are listening to what he is saying and thinking "yeahhhhh he's so right!!!!"

 

Actually I'm going to disagree with you there. This has been going on all the time - this terrorism took place in various forms and was carried out with various tools but only with 9/11 did the world really 'wake up'. At the time I was quite young, but I still remember the massive stir it had caused worldwide.

In short this isn't recent. It's been happening at the start - in short, approximately 1400 years marked in bloodshed, which claimed the lives of around 290 million people. That's what we've reduced human life to - a statistic.

 

I was specifically referring to attacks within the USA, which is what the Donald was referring to. If you're talking about worldwide, then obviously radical Islamic terrorists have done more damage.

 

Trump doesn't scare me. The millions of people who respond positively to this scare me. Those resentful, paranoid, reactionary, fascist-curious people will still be out there even if trump flames out.

 

Trump is laying bare some uncomfortable truths about modern US politics and a sycophantic ratings-obsessed media. Many people are agreeing with him, mainly because of fear.

All other political candidates have simply not ventured into Trump territory, because they assume that there are limits to what you can or should say in public.

Well here we have this lying, racist bigot saying whatever he likes (because he's rich and used to doing as he likes) and everyone is all a-flutter, unable to figure out how to respond. It's the people who are supporting him that scare me more, when people are fearful, logic goes out the window.

 

This is what the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, had to say about this..

Trump is such an unbelievable bigot that even our right-wing politicians here think he's a loonie. I think the rest of the world is in a state of shock that such an idiot is polling so well amongst the US populous.

Anyone attempting to defend his words is a scummer as far as I'm concerned. Concerns regarding terrorism are valid - banning every single Muslim from entering a country is not a rational response - whether Christians are persecuted in Muslim countries is totally irrelevant considering it is us who should be setting the example for the rest of the world. Anyone with half a brain should be aware of that.

 

Even within the USA - the most Christians have done is make themselves a complete nuisance when it comes to exercise of religion. Christian extremists may be barking mad but they pose no actual safety risks.

 

Ignore Christian extremism for a second - in fact, ignore extremism in general, under whatever guise. Whether a person kills for entirely random reasons, or kills in the name of religion or politics, it's not really important. Random massacres by disgruntled men such as in Sandy Hook are considerably more prevalent than Islamic extremism and pose a far greater risk to your average American than Islamic extremism.

Honestly, you guys have more important and worrying things to concern yourself with. There have been over 300 mass shootings in the US this year - it's so common that it isn't even worthy of breaking news - it's just a routine part of life. I honestly doubt someone who has just been shot in the chest is too concerned whether the person is affiliated with Islam or is just insane.

The argument that you should ban all Muslims because they might be terrorists.. you could apply that to so many things. Men are significantly more likely to murder and white men in particular are overrepresented in mass shootings.. so it stands to reason that we should treat them with an extra degree of caution because they might end up going into a school and killing dozens of people for no particular reason.

It's reactionary, knee-jerk nonsense. We do not elect people to make rash decisions based on the heat of the moment - we elect them to make informed and sensible decisions after evaluating the situation carefully. Prohibiting all Muslims from entering the US is not a sensible decision - and as others point out, will only add fuel to the fire by making many more of them feel alienated and unwelcome. You don't seem to realise that you are indirectly contributing to this kind of shit with your hateful and ignorant bollocks.

Oh, and I recently came across an interesting statistic.. in the UK you are more likely to die falling out of bed than being killed in a terrorist attack. Just mull that over for a while. What next - a ban on beds?

 

Most Muslims, the overwhelming majority even, have at worst made themselves a nuisance when it comes to exercise of religion.

christian extremists carried out the second deadliest terrorist attack in the U.S. A Christian extremist murdered George Tiller while he was in church. A Christian extremist was responsible for the Atlanta Olympics bombing and a string of other attacks.

A Christian extremist murdered people in Colorado Springs less than two weeks ago.

Both the recent Colorado Springs shootings and the Olympics bomber were tied in with the Army of God, a right wing terrorist organization.

 

To be honest I wasn't referring entirely to the USA until the other guy replied. Regarding gun laws, the situation in there is pretty flawed with the trigger-happy mentality - which is getting a lot of people killed. But that is entirely another thing which isn't the focus of the discussion.

Secondly, when you have a certain specified group of people belonging to a certain group by choice with a history of oppression and violence who impose their believes on others, and you see it happening on a daily basis, it is insane not to be concerned. People get killed for other reasons, and all effort should be made to prevent the killing of innocent bystanders.

Again, Islam and education is the real problem. If Muslims really wish to integrate then they obeying the host country's laws would be a start.

@CyclingFan, I beg to differ, the situations just aren't comparable.

I agree that most have made themselves a nuisance but that it stops there is definitely not the case :rolle:

Regarding Christianity I have a lot to criticize, but on completely unrelated matters.

 

The problem people such as yourself have is that you often conflate integration with abandoning cultural roots.. the two aren't and needn't be the same. It's entirely possible for Muslims to integrate into Western society without becoming secular or adopting a different religion seen as more 'in tune' with that country's way of life. All that is required is respect in either direction.

The vast majority of Muslims in any Western nation obey the laws of the country they reside in - as do most people of all religions. If you have any evidence to the contrary then I'm all ears (or eyes, in this case).

 

The situations aren't comparable because you've already determined they aren't comparable cuz Muslim. It's straight up bigotry hiding behind a cherry picked set of "facts" to demonize a different religion than you're used to.

I'm far more likely to die from extremist Christian terrorism than Islamic. And the risk of either of those is so small as to not really worry about it too much, beyond putting the tools of terror outside the hands of the populace, regardless of affiliation or religion.