I'm starting to feel like I'm this really awful guy. That I'm unfair to my now wife. That I'm selfish and not trying hard enough for our relationship. That I lie very easily. And why? Because I'm scared to just completely own who I am? Because I'm scared of making mistakes and losing relationships that aren't even built on a real foundation at this point? Sometimes as much as I know life would be pretty hard if I just blew things up and started from scratch, I also think it would be so much better for everybody involved. I could be honest about everything with everybody and just be the truest version of myself. And the people who really matter would support me and care about me. Heck I'd probably even make more friends and strengthen relationships since people would get to see the real me.
(*hug*)Hi COS, I can relate a lot to these feelings. I feel like a monster who wants to break my husbabd's heart and disrupt my daughter's life just to take care of me. I don't know how to make effective decisions with that thinking. I do believe we have to take care of ourselves and find a way to feel like we're living truly and fully, but I'm at a loss now to as to how to go forward with the least damage and hurt for everyone involved. Sorry, I'm not much help, but I do empathise with you.(*hug*)
ask yourself this question, is it fair that society and conventional wisdom put you in the position whereby you needed to suppress your sexuality and live your life as someone you are not just to try and feel as if you are accepted? Once you have answered that, you will have an answer to your question! Time to live your life, with your head high!
I don't think you are a horrible person or that you are selfish. If anything, you are not selfish enough. It seems that you are struggling to find and express your true self without disappointing those around you. Ultimately you need to discover who you really are and then find the courage to present him to the world. I don't personally view that as being selfish - it's more of a fundamental right of living authentically. While the conflict is painful now, you will feel more pain and angst as you get older and fail to express your true self.
No you aren't, you are only another social normatives that have dragged you to this point, sadly we are usually forced to get relationship to hide and avoid conflict for our sexuality and that only ends badly for everyone involved.
To me, from what you said in previous thread, it sounds like you need to come to terms with the fact that your marriage is going to end. So you can be yourself. If that's going to cause some hurt in the short term then it's nothing compared to the damage it can do in the long term. It doesn't make you a horrible person, it makes you a person struggling to be authentic and confront a difficult situation. I know it's so hard to first of all a) define who we are and what we want from life in the first place; b) express that to significant people in our lives; c) actually achieve living how we desire to. But I don't think anyone should stay in a marriage just to avoid being seen as a bad person.
I think, as others have said, that time is definitely not your friend on this. The longer you wait to be true to yourself, the more dramatic everything is going to be. My relationship ended after almost 15 years, and I have seen how for ages I didn't feel the way I should've felt for her. I stayed because I didn't want to disrupt things with my kids, but eventually the frustrations over keeping it all in just get to be too much to bear.
These guys are cutting you too much slack. Sorry to be blunt but I think you've kind of fucked this all up, and moreover, that you KNOW IT. I know you know it. I've been reading your insightful posts for months. You've laid out all the issues. You know yourself pretty damn well at this point. You just went and got married to someone who wasn't interested in an open marriage or in your being bi anyway. (Which is totally fine for her to want, by the way. Lots of people want that, and she's made herself clear.) Does that make you a horrible person? Not exactly. Hate the sin, love the sinner. Does that excuse you from fixing the situation? No, it does not. Fix it, man. Either by leaving your marriage or figuring out a way for it to work for you both.
I agree the fact you have full knowledge of what you're doing and that it's dishonest and deceptive does make it all the worse. I did say that very live and direct in my last comment on your other thread and I did say keep working with your therapist until your therapist says you no longer have a problem with honesty. You need to move out of denial. Stop trying to force something to be what it isn't. You can only control yourself not anyone else including your wife.
I don't think you're a horrible person. I do think you are not being very fair to your wife and are expecting too much from her. As Cap says, there is nothing wrong with her wanting monogamy (most people do), and she has been very upfront about that with you, so it's not like that was a surprise. I also think that you are trying to shoehorn yourself into this marriage that you know is going nowhere good. And I agree with angeluscrzy...it is only going to get worse the more time you invest in it and the longer you try to deny yourself. Eventually, something is going to give. It can be a surmountable hill now, or it can be a mountain later. You decide. I know you love her and you don't want to disappoint people. I get that. Guilt played a huge role in my marriage and definitely made me hesitate and tread water for a while. But that situation is never sustainable and eventually, it all falls apart. I don't think you owning your true self is being selfish...I think suppressing it and moving ahead with an ill-advised marriage and then trying to force your wife to change her whole value system for you might be the more selfish move. But I think you know that too. Your post indicates that you know that being honest is the better way to go. When you don't have to hide the Real You, everything is better.
Sometimes, empathy really is enough. I like coming here just to see that I'm not alone going through these things. But I agree, it's hard to figure out how to cause the least damage and hurt for everyone involved sometimes. My therapist said to me recently, there's no such thing as a nice breakup, so stop trying to figure one out and just own that it will be hard. ---------- Post added 13th Nov 2015 at 06:58 AM ---------- Sometimes I don't even understand myself still, to be honest. I was out! I was open! I gladly told friends that I was gay and happily hit on guys and tried dating a little and all of it, when I was 20/21 in college. Why did I go backwards on that? Was I really that afraid of being alone that I convinced myself I was better off being with a woman? Heck, when I was 15 and fantasizing about boys but trying to ask this one female friend out, what was that about? I guess I just never thought about how much I let myself accept social norms or whatever reasoning there might be. Or maybe my sexuality really just wasn't there yet. I do buy that sexuality is fluid to a degree. Maybe my river just took a little longer to get to where it is going. ---------- Post added 13th Nov 2015 at 07:06 AM ---------- You're absolutely right, I'm in a constant conflict with myself about figuring out and expressing who I am while also keeping my family happy. I was talking to my aunt the other day, who still fully knows the conflict I am going through, and she told me that she hopes my wife and I have a baby soon...HELLO??? It's like she doesn't even want to begin to listen to me. We won't be having a baby soon, because chances are we won't even be together for that long. And I'm not about to let my family start pressuring me into that. I'm feeling stronger now, and I can say no. I'm still having a hard time with my wife not wanting me to speak about being not straight. She wants it to be a secret. Sure she says I should just be myself, but turning around and saying that I have to accept the consequences if it pushes her away makes me feel like she's threatening me with that reality. Like, I'd love to post on FB right now the article about the musician who came out after basically establishing his career because of his relationship with first his high school girlfriend and then his (now ex) wife. I find the article kind of empowering and interesting. Or I'd like to post about the same-sex couple in Utah who was told they cannot be foster parents because they are not a hetero couple. That makes me so angry on so many levels! But will she look at me sharing these things as saying too much about my identity and get angry at it? I don't like feeling like I have to be afraid of that. Maybe I should just own it and go for it. It's not me posting "hey I like men!" If she's going to get angry at those articles, then it's a bigger issue anyway. ---------- Post added 13th Nov 2015 at 07:09 AM ---------- Thank you for that. I don't want to write everything off to being society's fault. I could have still made other choices and not let fear dictate my decisions. I'm angry with myself, because I promised myself years ago (after my ex broke up with me) that I wouldn't let fear dictate my decisions in life anymore. I don't think me dating women after my ex was because of fear per se. It still at that point didn't occur to me that I should date men, that I'd be happier with men. I hate that the timing of when that did occur to me was 8 months into being engaged to get married. But I should have done something about it and owned it. ---------- Post added 13th Nov 2015 at 07:17 AM ---------- Mind you, I got into the marriage to avoid being seen as a bad person. I do feel like I've come to terms with the fact that it won't last. That we'll be one of the 3% of marriages that end in the first year (only not really since we aren't legally married). Right now we feel like making it a week (today) was sort of a miracle. She almost broke up with me on Wednesday and I wouldn't even have blamed her. I'm trying to treat her better now and be more honest and open with her, because at the end of the day if we break up because I'm gay, it's a lot different than we broke up because I never did the dishes or spent enough time with the dog. I mean, I'm not delusional enough to think that we'll stay friends either way, but hopefully the hurt won't be as severe. I don't know. ---------- Post added 13th Nov 2015 at 07:19 AM ---------- I agree, sadly. I can't imagine being in this situation for 15 years. I've barely been able to handle it for 6 months. I don't know that I regret not just up and leaving as soon as I had questions, but at this point the questions aren't going away. In fact, they seem to be getting stronger.
Blunt is what I need sometimes. I do think I messed this up in a lot of ways. I think I know myself, but I still second guess a lot of what I think I know. And I'm still scared. I feel like with therapy, I'm growing into a more confident person who feels like he could survive this and whatever happens. I've started in the last week or two to work on repairing my credit, which has been pretty bad for years. I know that sounds like it is completely unrelated, but to me it's a step in trying to take care of myself and get on my own two feet. Baby steps, so to speak. ---------- Post added 13th Nov 2015 at 07:37 AM ---------- I really do feel like half the issues in my life have stemmed from not being honest. Like, even going back to my teens, lying for my father's sake so that he wouldn't get kicked out. I would have been a million times better off if he had been kicked to the curb when I was 15. Not losing him was what was important to me and it took dishonesty to achieve that. And that's a constant cycle. Being dishonest to not lose the things I want. If I just started being open and honest with everybody about everything, I might lose a lot, I might struggle, I might even hit some new lows...but at least I'd feel better about being an honest person. Truth is if there's something you're doing that you feel like you have to lie about, then you probably shouldn't be doing it.
Have you seen Brene Brown's TED talks? If you haven't, check them out. Listening to her talk about vulnerability and shame have helped me be more open with those I love, understanding that if I move toward vulnerability and shame, I can show how much I love and trust them, while growing closer with them. It's hard, but if I can't be myself, I can't expect them to know, understand, or love ME.
Thanks for the detailed response to my and the others' posts. Can you summarize your plan moving ahead based on the input from all the replies?
COS - We have a very similar story, although mine is further along. I knew I was attracted to guys in my early teens and I had a summer boyfriend at 17, yet I ended up engaged to a woman at 20. At the time, I thought it would be ridiculous to let my sexuality define me and determine how every other aspect of my life should play out. During our three year engagement I definitely had second thoughts, and at one point I nearly came out to her, but didn't. After we'd been married for 2.5 years and started seriously talking about kids THEN I knew I had to tell her. We were 26. She moved out and I assumed our marriage was over. I even started a relationship with a guy. But two months later my wife and I got back together. Coming out to her was a huge relief for me. Also, the separation convinced me that I wanted to be with HER. My wife, however, never trusted me afterward. When she'd get angry, she'd say, "I just know you're going to leave me for someONE someday," implying that it was only a matter of time before I left her for a guy. That didn't happen. Instead, 18 years after I came out to her, she left me for another guy. The primary reason? My sexuality under-cut our marriage in ways I never expected or imagined. I can't say that I regret being married to a woman for twenty years, but I sure wish I'd done it from ages 70 - 90, not 24 - 44. I also doubt that I would make the same decision again. Societal attitudes have progressed and the penalties for being honest aren't what they once were; living as an out gay man doesn't mean you have to compromise anything...marriage, kids, a quiet suburban life, etc...whatever we want, we can achieve, just as if we were 100% straight. Where the compromise no longer makes sense is putting ourselves and someone we love in a handicapped "forever" relationship. Being married to your best friend can definitely be a wonderful thing, but it's not the same as being married to someone you can love in all ways. Trust me on this - the difference doesn't get easier to bridge over time, it gets harder. Best-friend-love can keep you happily together for 10 or even 20 years but as mid-life approaches at least one of you will be pining for what you're missing. THEN everything blows up. Sometimes I wonder, why did I try so damn hard to make it work for so long, only to have the same result in the end? I also relate to what you've said about having problems with honesty and how that affects your ability to connect with others. Being in the closet made me a habitual liar. Not in a mean or malicious way, but any time there was a way to smooth things over with someone by telling a little white lie, I automatically did it. Subterfuge was a way of life. It wasn't until I was out of the closet that I realized how often I avoided being honest, so of course that affected my ability to connect with others. Even now, five years later, being as honest as possible at all times can be a challenge. Finally, I want say that the most important thing I've learned since coming out is how to effectively deal with fear. Basically, fear causes us to do all kinds of crazy things to avoid experiencing it. "Avoid, avoid, avoid" is the mantra. Not just with coming out but with so many things. Well, the secret to dealing with fear is to blunt it with reality. Instead of fearing bad things will happen if you do X, you actually do X and deal with the consequences afterward. Certainly that can be painful in the short-run, but in the long-run fear stops running your life. You essentially take the power from fear and give it back to yourself. This is not easy to do, especially at first, but with practice it becomes incredibly liberating and empowering. In the case of coming out and/or ending a marriage, the short term misery is a relatively small price to pay compared to decades of depression and an unfulfilling life. At least that's been my experience.
Wow, thank you SO MUCH for sharing your story here. It really is very similar and a lot to think about. Truth is, I've already seen how my sexuality affects my wife in ways I wouldn't have expected. And heck, she broke up with me four times when we started dating because of it. I just didn't realize at the time that she was probably right to do that. I've read your words a few times already and probably will a few more just to keep absorbing them. ---------- Post added 14th Nov 2015 at 03:50 AM ---------- I would be lying (and I'm trying not to!) if I said I had a solid plan per se. Right now part of the plan is definitely being honest and talking more openly. I talked to my wife about that article about the musician who just came out, and she didn't really respond at all except to smile and nod. I asked her if she wanted to read the article and she said maybe. Still, I'm proud of myself for bringing it up to her. Like I mentioned in another post, I've also started to work on rebuilding my credit, since it hasn't been the best and if I do end up single, I need to be able to take care of myself. Might not sound significant, but to me it is. I'll continue seeing my therapist, who I feel like is really helping me become more confident and sure of myself. I've also looked into some group therapy and will be contacted soon by the group when they have a new group starting up. These aren't quite the huge steps of walking away from my marriage, but I'm not there yet. It's only been a week. Baby steps.
Thanks for sharing. It's amazing how others can powerfully articulate what I can't even put into thoughts. I love this forum. My hubs is someone I can sit with on the couch and watch TV for days. If I could just skip the years of my life from 40-65.. this would be more than enough. But now that I've found this fire burning inside me that was ignited by my gf I can't bear the thought of having a kid with hubs. I just want to be selfish and pursue my newfound carnal desires. I don't know if my gf is someone I could sit with on the couch for days if you took away the sex part. But, maybe that's the point of a spouse - to have that sex part? CameOutSwinging - I totally understand the urge to blow everything up & start from scratch. Thanks for your update.
I've gotten to the point, where I think it would be easier for a lot of people (but probably not everyone) if we could be open about what we wanted and needed with various people without feeling like each person had to provide for each of our needs.
