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Be yourself, but accept the consequences

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by CameOutSwinging, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. CameOutSwinging

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    In therapy last night, the question posed to me was why are you trying so hard to hold on to a relationship that you can't be honest in?

    I know some of the reasons. I know I love my wife. I know that I have a very very great fear of abandonment, which has been poked like a sleeping bear twice in the last week or so - first by finding out that my Dad contacted my brother and spoke to him about a year ago, whereas I still haven't heard from the man in 15 years, and with my ex-girlfriend, who had been there for me a lot recently, deciding to unfriend me on FB in the wake of my decision to go through with the wedding that she saw as a huge mistake. So yes, I have reasons that to me say stay the course, keep my wife in my life.

    But my therapist has a point about honesty. Not being able to tell my wife the things that I want and need, and at times even going off and doing them, isn't very healthy for anybody involved.

    I initiated the conversation yesterday, about open marriages. Asking if she thought we'd ever get to a place where that was a potential option. Yes, when we talked about it before, she said absolutely not, but some recent talk about a couple she is friends with who are in an open marriage made me think perhaps it was something we could at least discuss as a potential thing in the future. Perhaps my timing was just really bad here, but it was on my mind and I really thought we could calmly discuss it.

    I was wrong.

    We ended up in a pretty bad fight about it. It's as if neither one of us entirely sees where the other person is coming from. I do get that she wants monogamy and that's it. That she wants somebody who "only has eyes for you." But I don't get entirely how she can be so willing to let go of me. It makes it pretty clear that her love for me isn't unconditional, which to a certain degree is what I believe in when it comes to relationships. I don't think there's anything she could do that would make me leave her because I love her. But she doesn't have the same idea of love, and she's not willing to give me something I need just to keep me around. I think a lot of people would agree with the way she sees things, so I can't exactly say she's wrong. But I can be, and I am, a bit frustrated by it.

    On top of that, I've even asked if I can at least start to be more open about being bisexual (I use that label for the sake of conversations with her) and her response is "Be yourself, but accept the consequences." I actually feel like that's kind of a manipulative way to say things! She's essentially saying you should be you and do what you need to, but don't be surprised when it pushes me away and I leave you for it. Knowing what she knows about my fears of losing her and that I want to be with her, telling me that just feels an awful lot like telling me to choose between being myself or being with her.

    Maybe my new focus needs to be building up the courage to make that choice, and choose myself. Because one thing is becoming clear to me - I'm not going to be very happy living with lies forever, nor am I going to be very happy living entirely as she wants me to and not getting to even express myself. She gets mad when I say I want to be open about being bi. "Why do you have to tell everybody that you're bisexual? I don't go around telling everybody that I'm straight." I honestly didn't even know how to respond to that one.

    I hate that the painful truth is she's right. I should be myself. And I should accept the consequences.
     
  2. Lindsey23

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    An open relationship is hard for someone to wrap their head around when they've only ever been interested in monogamy. The thought of you with someone else likely fills her with jealousy. It's painful for her. It's unfair to say her love for you is not unconditional. An open relationship would hurt her to the point of not being able to stay with you. It sounds like she loves you so much that she can't stand the thought of it. Can you really blame her for that?

    If you truly need to be with other people to be happy and she truly needs to be in a monogamous relationship to be happy, this can't work.
     
  3. mellie

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    It's a bit unfair to say that because she won't accept an open marriage, she doesn't love you as intensely as you love her. You did also say that you had the discussion about it before you got married and she said absolutely not, so then why did you go through with the marriage if you really feel you need more (and it was clear that she couldn't handle this)?

    Look, I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But as the previous poster said, it might hurt her too much for you to go outside the marriage. She VALUES monogamy and cannot be asked to disregard her values (which, it seems, she made clear) just to make room for yours. That does not mean she doesn't love you.

    Hugs to you. It's a difficult situation.
     
  4. CameOutSwinging

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    You guys are right, of course. It's just difficult loving somebody in a situation where it seems like one of you will have to compromise on values/needs to make it work forever.
     
  5. FreedMan

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    Life's full of trade-offs. Regardless of what marketing tells us - we can't have it all. It's taken me a long life to realize that there's no one to blame - that I'm 100% responsible for my choices and the consequences. Are they all ideal? Hell, no! But they're mine - and blaming anyone else just flat out doesn't work other than to blow off steam. She made and makes her choices also - so any burden of carrying that belongs to her - not you.

    You sound indecisive and confused right now -- so nothing wrong with pumping the brakes. You don't have to have a definitive answer right now in order to play 'fair'. Either does she. Life is messier than that. Unfortunately, we've been sold a bill of goods that says we should be fulfilled and happy and content. Hahaha! yeah, it's called advertising and 'Feel good' pop psychology. We all contain more multitudes than that one silly channel. It's okay to not have an answer. It's okay to feel uncomfortable. Too many decisions are based upon fleeing discomfort rather than staring it straight in the eye. But that's just me. One opinion among billions. Yours and hers are the only ones that count. Good luck.
     
  6. angeluscrzy

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    I don't buy into the idea of "unconditional love" when it comes to significant others. That's a bullshit way of thinking that someone can do anything they want and say anything they want and somehow there is this expectation to love them no matter what. No, every person should have morals and an idea of things they want in a relationship. Some things, compromise should be expected, but a person's core values on things like monogamy should never have to be sacrificed.
     
  7. Really

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  8. Fandom obsessed

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    This is why I will only marry a another Polyamorous person. I hope things improve.
     
  9. ThatRangerGirl

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    I guess the thing here is that you clearly want this marriage to work, but your wife only wants it to work on her terms. You are unhappy with those terms. That puts you in the unfortunate position of stay in an unhappy relationship, or leave and be alone. I can't give you much advice, but at the end of the day, you have two options and two only. I'm not sure which is better . . . that yours to decide.
     
  10. CameOutSwinging

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    Indecisive and confused is definitely the town I've been living in for awhile.
     
  11. Julietta

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    I'm sorry to say this but it's almost like you're refusing to accept she is entitled to her point of view. I think you need to change your stance.

    In my opinion (and I have been a very terrible person in my life, I've done some awful and hurtful things to other people and caused profound damage so please believe me I'm not judging), there is no reason for ever lying and cheating to someone except to manipulate the situation where you get your cake and eat it too. I do not believe anyone has the right in life to do that.

    Here is where I see the error in your thinking:

    "But I don't get entirely how she can be so willing to let go of me. It makes it pretty clear that her love for me isn't unconditional, which to a certain degree is what I believe in when it comes to relationships."

    Your relationship is not unconditional, very few if any ever are and usually this refers only to the love of a mother for a child not two grown adults.

    Secondly you are not the person who gets to decide if she's willing to let go of you. That is her choice and her choice only. She is absolutely 100% entitled to no longer wish to be with you when she is in possession of the full truthful facts. To deny someone their right to make their own mind up with full possession of the facts is an abuse.

    I have seen people drive others to suicide, mental breakdown, violence with such levels of dishonesty and attempts at control. I have seen children and families destroyed.

    You have the right to be yourself, you have the right to your own personal freedom, you have the right to find someone who agrees to be in an open polyamorous relationship or whichever lifestyle you choose. You will be healthier and happier for it. But you don't ever have the right to try and coerce someone into that either by depriving them of the truth OR by using persuasive argument, making any form of threat, or using emotional blackmail.

    Please reconsider whether you are being fair to your wife.
     
  12. CameOutSwinging

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    I guess that's just how I see relationships ideally being. I mean, there's limits to it - if somebody is being emotionally or physically abusive, you get rid of them. That goes the same for a parent or anybody in your life. But I feel as though you accept the person you're with, especially married to, as family, and family gets a bit of the unconditional love. But I'll fully admit, it's more complicated than that.
     
  13. angeluscrzy

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    I just think if one party is expecting monogamy, then one shouldn't fault them when they don't agree with the idea of an open marriage. There are certain values that each person should have that they stand by. Anyone willing to so easily bend in their convictions is asking to be a doormat.
     
  14. Julietta

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    "But my therapist has a point about honesty. Not being able to tell my wife the things that I want and need, and at times even going off and doing them, isn't very healthy for anybody involved."

    ? So you lie to her and do things behind her back that would deeply hurt her = emotional abuse.

    You don't want to see it. Your therapist is correct to discuss honesty with you. I think you should keep discussing honesty until your therapist thinks honesty is not a problem any more.
     
    #14 Julietta, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015