Feminism vs. Gay men

I can't watch the video right now, but can you explain how/why feminism is coming after gay men?

 

I'm sure one could come up with a better source of scholarly information relating to gay men and feminism other than Sargon of Akkad. I don't have time to watch the video now, but I can almost see where it's going to go considering the source. I as a gay man have never felt attacked by feminism. I have, however, felt attacked by the patriarchy that tells me that loving another men is something only women should do.

 

I'm sorry, were we supposed to?

 

Misogyny exist within gay male communities.

Homophobia exists within feminist and female spaces.

No, gay men don't "owe" women anything, including sex, attention, fighting for the same rights (although the last would be nice).

Neither is "feminism" some monolithic conspiracy to enslave all men, even if some nasty stuff has been said and done in the same, against LGBT people of all stripes.

The two have things in common, but that doesn't automatically make them natural "besties", and the differences don't make them a world apart (we're all humans, after all).

 

Misogyny certainly does exist within the gay male community and I find it really sickening. Like REALLY sickening. But I have met a gay guy in real life who told straight men off when they hit on a cute girl in a derogatory way. That memory still sticks with me because it was hilarious to see a cowardly straight male get owned by a gay guy. I think the main issue with feminism these days is its just misunderstood. People are so quick to call a woman a man hater if she sticks up for women's rights lmao. Not all hate men.. The derrogotory ones they may hate but otherwise it's a generalisation to say all hate men.
Also if all gay men weren't for women's rights then what's with all those Cher lovers

Feminist out

 

I find it slightly annoying that it was said that we won and now that we have it good we won't help the feminists.

Define "won."

I think on a whole we as gay and bisexual men want equality with our straight counter-parts. I think feminists want equality with men. For both they want proper equality.

I don't think gay and bisexual men have gotten that here in Canada. In other nations certainly not. Just because gay marriage has gone through hasn't stopped the hate comments. Hasn't stopped kids from attempting or committing suicide. Hasn't stopped us from hiding who we are to protect ourselves in certain situations.

Not to mention in many other nations equality is certainly non-existent.

But if I just contained it to Canada. We have similar rights and protections(hate crimes job protection etc...) as women. So did they not also "win" under that definition as well?

The whole thing is preposterous.

 

I think many women find drag queens to be very sexist and offensive. And gay men can be very unkind to women, talking down to them, telling them how to dress without being asked, saying they are better looking in a dress than a woman, etc.

Not ALL gay men by any means. All people are individuals.

But men in drag do need to remember that being a woman is not related in any way to wearing long fingernails, weaves, tight dress, heels, and makeup. They are not "more" of a woman, or better women, than actual women. I have heard quite a few gay men speak on this in a way that was extremely offensive and derogatory to all women.

Not all gay men are into drag, but there is a faction of the community that is, and within that circle, there is a group that uses it in a way that bastardizes and twists the actual definition of womanhood, and the respect of women in any sense but according to her physical appearance. One's ability to be perceived as sexy to straight men is not the measure of a woman.

 

I don't understand how you can be offended by drag queens. It is comedy for crying out loud, it is not supposed to be taken seriously. I mean, have you ever even seen a drag queen? Geez. Talk about stringent...

In my honest opinion I find feminism to be quite ridiculous. I will never call myself a feminist but that certainly doesn't make me a misogynist. I am for EQUALITY for all, not female supremacy. What I really detest is when feminists say they are for equality but then don't ever talk about what challenges men face in society. That is the reason I think a lot of men don't want to call themselves feminists is because men are mostly excluded, because feminists think that ALL MEN are the problem. As if men are always the oppressors and that women are always the victims. Men are seen as being emotionally inferior and I just hate that. I just really hate that feminists like to generalize in such ways but hate to be generalized against themselves. It is like they don't see that what they are doing towards men is exactly what they don't want men to do to them. It is just so absurd.

I just dislike this bipolarity to the whole debate. I think that is the biggest problem, that people always see things in black and white. If we really want equality then we have to stop using gender as a tool against each other.

 

The last time I checked, they never said they were "real women" - they're impersonators. Plenty of female entertainers have dressed in extremely flamboyant outfits, enough to rival those used in drag shows (Cher was a huge supporter, so it's more give and take in some cases). Is womanhood defined by the amount of make up one wears? Or the size of your heels?

When it comes to drag, there are few rules, and it's a source of empowerment for many inside and outside the gay community. Some can get a bit carried away, but I wouldn't label the entire tradition as being negative. Try not to generalize: your post might have good intentions, but in the end, typing all queens as some type of villain for being "sexist" is no better than your straight male jock ridiculing them for going against the grain of "acceptable" male behaviors and expressions.

If more people took the time to research it, there would be less hurt feelings on both sides.

 

I think it's a very small number of feminists who think gay men are misogynists; this is blowing things way, way out of proportion. I've long supported equal rights, as have pretty much every gay person I have ever known...and of the feminists I've known, I've never encountered this sort of thing.

In my mind, it's something that's cooked up by a few attention seekers in order to sound controversial, divide people, and serve as a wedge issue, where we needn't make such a fuss about it.

Also, the same political forces have advanced the rights of both the LGBT community and women. Hint: And it's not the Republicans. Maybe these issues are less about gender, than gender roles, and the traditional, conservative, gender normative ideals that stereotype both sexes, and also gays, lesbians and others, and tend to find great support and/or tolerance among Republicans. I think that would be a more prescient debate.

 

I don't really think feminism is coming after gays. Sure, there might be a small group of feminists that are, but most of them have bigger issues to deal with I guess. I do see one complaint or another about how some gay men say they can't be misogynist but actually adopt a sexist behaviour or talk down on women's appearance, but again I don't think this is aimed at the gay community as a whole.

I think that as minorities it's not strategic to fight amongst ourselves, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical of the movement. Hell, some feminists in my college overreact so much and can be so uneducated, I sometimes want to act sexist just to piss them off. But, luckily, it's just a loud minority in the movement, just like in the LGBT one.

 

Well feminism is often misunderstood and misused. You guys should listen to Emma Watson's speech in the UN on this subject. She and many other true feminists don't look at feminism as only equal rights for women , they look at it as seeing the world through eyes that don't know gender role bias. Yes patriarchal society has existed from time immemorial and in such a society men face as much pressure to live up to the expectations of a "man" . Gay men would surely understand this pressure and being the ones oppressed would understand the pain of oppression. So thinking that gay men don't care about feminism is baseless. If people are referring to gay men not choosing feminine men as their partners under misogyny or their dislike to maintain a physical relationship with a woman as misogyny then they have no idea of what feminism is or the whole concept of homosexuality. Speaking of drag queens, finding that offensive is just a sign of you wallowing in self pitty of how woman have been treated in the past and you over thinking what it all means. The world has moved a long way from patriarchy and it wouldn't reach equality till the society puts men and women in specific fixed boxes of roles . a non binary society is what gay men want n that's what feminists should want too

 

Once again, I feel the need to post this:

Man-haters are not real feminists. Feminists want equality.

 

You mean like getting women the right to vote? Or rejecting the old idea that women are by nature unintelligent and are only able to cook, clean, and take care of children? Or campaigning to get women paid the same amount as men are for the same job?

The people who call themselves feminists and despise men are a disgrace to the feminist movement and are not real feminists. Real feminists do lots of work to help people who aren't men get the same rights as men.