1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

LGBT News Sweet Cakes Bakery now refusing to pay settlement

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by candyjiru, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. SHIELDAgentAlex

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Missouri
    Gender:
    Male
    I thought this shit was over…

    And really, refusing service was a dick move, but it could be well within the owner's rights. "We reserve the right to refuse service for any reason, blah blah blah." Thee addresses and stuff, also a dick move. I could see them being sued for that.

    As for the couple, how many bakeries are there in that area? Dear God, go to another one! Making a big deal of it doesn't help anyone, since you could've just went to a different bakery.
     
  2. Donteatthesushi

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    This is like the boy scout BS all over again. They should have the right to refuse customers even if there are one or two bakeries, it's their right to and again like i said common courtesy. I wouldn't walk into a muslim establishment even if they don't say muslim on it and say "yes i'll have the spare ribs thank you". You don't want people forcing their beliefs on you, do the same. Hypocrisy on all sides must be called out. Find one that supports what you believe in. I wouldn't force a church to marry my bf and me if it's not what they believe in, i'd find one that does. Same goes here.

    Wrong, actually it creates more diversity, this country itself was founded by multiple religions and ideals coming together to create such a diverse country, though yes they disagreed with each other the idea that catholics and protestants and people of different beliefs coexist side by side. Society as a whole is unequal, always has been, always will be. It's the nature of man, every group wants to be socially superior. Human nature. Diversity comes from allowing different groups to exist simultaneously whether they're LGBT or religious practicing their beliefs. However unrealistic the concept may be of two opposing groups existing harmoniously.

    I disagree with this and always hated the law interfering beyond the public realm, i have always disagreed with the idea of law on that one. Private businesses are exactly that privately owned, they have as a private business a right to refuse customers. This case being forced to go against what they believe (in a privately owned business). They should have the right to refuse. The public good, you really believe that, you believe that forcing people to go against what they believe is in the public good, i remember there were people who believe that, they were deposed quickly. That rhetoric is beginning to sound like every dictator and tyrant throughout history.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Oct 2015 at 10:51 PM ----------


    It's a appropriate analogy, you wouldn't walk into a butcher shop even if they didn't say they were Jewish, just that the owner and employees are Jewish and order a pork chop because it's common courtesy. It's called respecting the other persons beliefs, you don't have to believe in what the other person believes in just respect it. It's also wrong to force them to sell you pork. They shouldn't have to either. If someone refused to make what i asked based on their religion i'd respect their beliefs and find a different shop. If we can't respect others beliefs why should they respect ours? As long as no one is really hurting or killing another person.



    No they asked for a cake that said "support gay rights" on it, not just any cake. That's just the rose tinted glasses. The LGBT groups and their supporters here are clearly in the wrong, they not only threatened the bake shop owners but threatened to have their children taken away from them, how tolerant they are aren't they. The LGBT groups here are no angels and shouldn't be seen as helpless victims after what they did. Goes to show you What people will do for their beliefs. We love to preach tolerance and equality but look at how we behave. This shows if anything we're hypocrites when it comes to what we believe. We're no better the the religious right wing we fight against. We love to espouse how the right and the religious groups are shoving their beliefs down our throats and forcing it on us, but we're no better, in fact we behave the same. How can anyone take our sides when we act like tyrants ourselves.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Oct 2015 at 06:41 AM ----------

    Gay rights sure, but never at the cost of another persons rights.
     
    #22 Donteatthesushi, Oct 3, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  3. Summer Rose

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    A field
    I think you need to calm down and actually re-read the past articles on this bit of news, because it's clear you don't actually know what's going on.

    "No they asked for a cake that said "support gay rights" on it, not just any cake. That's just the rose tinted glasses. The LGBT groups and their supporters here are clearly in the wrong, they not only threatened the bake shop owners but threatened to have their children taken away from them, how tolerant they are aren't they. "

    The couple went into the bakery, asked for a cake, and were then asked who the "mr" and "mrs" were. The two women clarified to the bakers that they were the couple getting the cake; the couple was then told that they would not be served, because "religion".

    It was the two women who had their information exposed, were sent death threats, and who nearly had their children taken away due to the possible danger presented. That is why the bakers owe such a large fine (135k).

    These people were later asked to baked a cake for divorce...and they did! So no, it's not because of religion that the couple was rejected, the bakers were bigots.
     
  4. Serperior

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Washington
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Family only
    It isn't in their rights as sexual orientation is a protected class in Oregon. Legally it's the same as saying "we won't serve you because you're black."
     
  5. Purp

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Virginia
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Love you!!!!(*hug*)
    What damn entitlement do these people have to the cakes? I'd allow for all friggin kinds of discrimination, it's your own damn business.
     
    #25 Purp, Oct 3, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  6. HuskyPup

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    An Igloo in Baltimore, Maryland
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I think the bakers should be imprisoned.

    Or, they can move to some theocracy, like Iran or Saudi Arabia, where their views will be more supported by the government.

    They're just being cry-babies; they raise $500,000, and can't even part with $130,000 of it.

    Boo-fuckin' hoo.

    If I was supreme ruler, I'd have them on chains, baking gay cakes FOREVER in a dungeon!
     
    #26 HuskyPup, Oct 3, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  7. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    кєηтυ¢ку
    So folks would be okay with a doctor refusing to treat somebody, if it went against their personal or religious beliefs? Even if that refusal lead to serious complications or death, the doctor would not be held accountable, at all, if somebody suffers or dies.

    A bit extreme, but I'm curious at what point the consistency breaks for the 'it's their right'.
     
  8. Purp

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Virginia
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    It "should" always be their right to serve someone or not. there are many good people out there that will serve you. Just because I defend those who wouldn't sell you a cake, doesn't mean that if I were a baker I wouldn't bake something for your wedding (assuming that is a future endeavor). I wouldn't want a hostile doctor either, I'd probs move on to another. The argument might be made that "what if it's the only doctor in town?". Well shit, that's unfortunate. Although, I think doctors are held under their oath to help people to the best of their ability... I'm not sure the consequences for failing to uphold that though.

    But this IS why the community is so important for adjusting the social attitudes of this nation. So that we can alleviate discrimination, break down the old religious culture, introduce diversity (from both parties in a sensible fasion), and live harmoniously with one another.
     
  9. Minamimoto_Fan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southwestern Ohio
    The thing is, under their state's law, what Sweet Cakes did is legally equatable to not serving somebody because of their race. THAT is why it is an issue, I don't care what they're beliefs are, that's law. If they don't like it, they can just move shop somewhere else, or they can try to take it up with a lobby group and try and overturn that, although, let's be frank, that's never gonna happen.
     
  10. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    кєηтυ¢ку
    Fair enough.

    Boring stuff...
    Something to keep in mind, though, some folks don't want to live with others, they want to live over or beyond them. There is a reason why division is enforced, because it works, just look at professional sports as an example. It generates interest and profit, while maintaining a temporary relief or distraction, which so many eagerly take. It's much easier to escape for a few hours watching a game, than it is to ponder the back-breaking work your 9-5 job is; not to mention a lot more fun. People will blow their paychecks on tickets or merchandise, and some are even willing to harm or kill others over such things.

    And that's for just so-called recreation. Not life, period. We are a world typically bred to see "winners" and "losers", from the way politics function to our school systems. And this would not change unless somebody violated another's rights, because why should it?

    Oh, the blacks can't fight back, so they can keep being slaves.
    Oh, the women won't speak up, so they can keep being domestic servants.
    Oh, the gays won't take action, so they can keep being immoral scapegoats.


    Before we can go into a 'our rights, but not at the cost of another's rights', both parties have to have fair representation and standing in society. Until then, one side, the one with the most benefits, is costing the other side, with denied status, their rights.

    To put this into a simple analogy:

    You and Mike Tyson are put into a boxing match, where the winner receives a prize. Unless you have training as a boxer, Mike Tyson is probably going to win.

    But you were given the chance to box Mr. Tyson! All's fair, right?
     
  11. imnotreallysure

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,937
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I would *love* to see someone try and defend that - if businesses can discriminate against LGBT individuals based on their 'personal beliefs', you can certainly apply the same logic to people of colour.

    Personally, I don't think any legal action ought to be taken - depending on the location of such businesses, they will probably do poorly if they continue to discriminate against people and refuse custom, and that will serve them right. Let the market take care of them.
     
    #31 imnotreallysure, Oct 3, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  12. Formality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sweden
    I wonder what judge Judy has to say about this...

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Zen fix

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    California
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I was torn on this initially. But they clearly violated Oregon's anti-discrimination laws. Not much to argue on that part. The bakers and those who agree with them are free to protest, lobby and vote to change the law. In the meantime they are obligated to follow it.

    However, it did feel like there was some baiting or something going on which didn't sit well with me. I do think businesses should be able to refuse service but at the same time this could open up all sorts of nasty discrimination. A small town could easily run the lesbian couple out by refusing them service at the restaurant, grocery store, bakery, etc. I don't see how that would be ok. The market might take care of the bigots in some places but not always so, as distasteful as it is, the government has to step in to protect the rights of the minority.
     
  14. Donteatthesushi

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
  15. Donteatthesushi

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I used to when i was younger and a freshman all the way to sophomore year in college join groups and protests etc. Just to find out people are people no matter what side you're on. What i mean by that is that there's hypocrisy on both sides and usually both sides are no better then the other, kinda like how communists and anarchists are usually the ones who want power for themselves etc etc, so now when someone presents me with "oh we have to do this.." i look for the BS, the way a pig sniffs out truffles.