The thing that bothers me the most is when he said that religious people should be allowed to be conscientious objectors, and that it is their human right. All I have to say to that is, what about the gays' right to get married? That isn't a human right? It's completely contradictory to say that certain people should be entitled to their human rights...to take away someone else's right. The bottom line here is that Kim Davis refuses to do her job, therefore she should find a job that doesn't require her to "go against" her faith, and doesn't hurt other people in the process.
When he was elected I recall that there was optimism on the forum. I wasn't, he's described as being fiercely against the idea of gay marriage. However he can't openly voice his thoughts without risking losing the support of LGBT-affiliated Christians so to use the vernacular, he be liek ''who am I to judge?'' Nah, he's a hypocrite alright, just a tad more controlled in his actions in order to appear more open. Still don't get it how anyone could be surprised - this is exactly the sort of thing he would want do. Luckily this can serve as a wake-up call for those of us who still believe in his very upfront and honest approach. He knows that if he denounced gays, his popularity will diminish considerably so I guess our pope is in a closet of his own.
This was sad to hear, especially as the whole Kim Davis thing seemed to be fading from the media; now, it has to explode all over, and with the support of the pope. Very disappointing. I hope our traditions of separations of church and state over-ride any influence the Vatican's opinion might have in this matter.
Very emotional about hearing this news (sad, angry, everything.) Here is my reasoning: Kim Davis is (1) not Catholic. She is a Pentecostal Apostolic Christian. (2). She is divorced and remarried-on her fourth marriage. And she gets a meeting with the Pope. Margie Winters-a lesbian who was fired from her job as a religion teacher at a Catholic school for being married to her partner-IS Catholic-and pretty devout to be a religion teacher. I thought she was supposed to meet with the Pope but apparently there was no meeting. Those who want to put a spin on the Pope's reasoning for the Kim Davis meeting (since this conflicts with "Who am I to judge" statement) say it was more about support for "conscientious objection" than anything else. I disagree. A big reason why the Pope was in the US was the World Meeting of Families. Should he not at least listened to the problems in his OWN family before giving audience to those outside of the Church? He was clearly making a statement, one he did not want covered until he had left the country. :tantrum::bang:
I'm was similarly quite emotional upon reading all this, for the same reasons. Also, I thought he gave very scant attention to the sexual abuse scandals, yet has the time to visit this crazy attention seeker, when there are still such wounds to be healed with so many abuse victims. In fact, I'm not sure if he even met with a single actual abuse victim, yet had time for Kim Davis...I'm not impressed, not at all.
She is more than entitled to conscientiously object....its called stepping down from her job because she makes the voluntary personal choice not to issue licences. What she was doing was not conscientiously objecting, it was instead having her cake and eating it. Playing a hard-done to martyr on a personal moral crusade....yet still happily taking a $80K salary from the government (ultimately funded by the public) whilst not doing her job, and enforcing her own beliefs on others (staff members and the public alike). Had she resigned and then played the martyr re being "constructively dismissed" she may have had a tiny shred more of a point. But nope.
Vatican Disputes Kim Davis's Version of Papal Meeting | Advocate.com While I wouldn't put it past Liberty Counsel to have inflated this, I also wouldn't put it past the Vatican to downplay it for PR purposes. It's all getting very he said she said.
Now I'm seeing where he also met with an openly gay man, as well, and that meeting Davis wasn't 'an endorsement'. I wish I could press a button and make Kim Davis disappear! Or move to another planet, or something...
Exactly. What she should have done is left her job. And if she refused to do what her job required, she should have been fired. It's not as if she wanted to wear a headscarf, for example, or have a certain holiday off work. Her adhering to her beliefs is preventing her from doing her job and it's hurting people.
Liberty Counsel Claims the Vatican Is Lying About Pope's Kim Davis Meeting | Advocate.com It's handbags at dawn!
1 John 4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. We love, because He first loved us. If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.
Breaking News!! Kim Davis is Caught In a Lie!!! I don't know, if many people seen this yet or not but its all over our state's news!!! Kim Davis LIED to the public! The Pope didn't have a private meeting with her. He met a lot of people around and shook hands, and handed out special crosses, he didn't meet her privately, she and her husband attended that event and that's how she managed to only tell a HALF TRUTH, she took that and blew it way up He didn't tell her he admired her courage, she lied From my knowledge he didn't turn down helping the homeless in the gay community, those were just rumors trying to stir stuff up, due to Kim Davis's lies. This has just made my day :lol: One of the Pope's main priests in the Vatican, told the public this wasn't true, because the Pope was getting a bad wrap, from Kim's bogus lies (my words ) I also heard he shook hands with a gay couple, and blessed them, as he would anyone else This has made me so happy, he wants equality as much as we all do and Kim Davis...Karma bit her in the ass!! :badgrin:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/europe/pope-francis-kim-davis-meeting.html Pope's meeting with Kim Davis was not an endorsement of her views in any way, shape, or form. The Pope did, however, have a long personal meeting with one of his former students, who is gay, and his partner of 19 years. There's a video tape of the Pope hugging his student.
Re: Breaking News!! Kim Davis is Caught In a Lie!!! Everything else you said may be true, but what I quoted certainly is not. The Pope is not interested in supporting marriage equality, nor any other serious pressing issue for our community. In fact, just a couple months ago he compared trans* people to nuclear weapons. He is not moving the church to change its policy on LGBT people. He is just moving toward de-emphasizing culture war issues, because he knows the Catholic Church has lost, and so he is moving the church more toward more populist and liberal issues that are important to those in the West. It's not a matter of changing policy, it's a matter of what he is emphasizing--there is a huge difference. He needs rich liberal Westerners who are lapsed Catholics to come back to the Church, as the Church needs their cash and support.
Without mentioning names, some of you are really naive. He doesn't support gay rights, certainly not gay marriage but draws a very 'mysterious' stance which means he does not wish to express his views openly which is why he opts for the very vague ''who am I to judge?''. He met that student for PR purposes to sooth the whole Kim Davis fiasco - I wonder how the said student felt knowing that his visitor disagreed with the relationship he had with his partner. He might not agree fully with Kim Davis POV - but if he does he wouldn't do it openly since it would damage his reputation among liberal Catholics.
Re: Breaking News!! Kim Davis is Caught In a Lie!!! Why would someone's sins and lies make your day? Dissent and dishonesty are a shame, not something to wish or be glad of another. The pope is just a man, no different from you or I. Though he might claim to be God on earth as the vicar of Christ, he serves his own agenda and is not about to undo the heresies and image of the system that's been built. If he truly wanted equality or to show the love of God, he would practice what the Bible teaches in the spirit of Truth.
well hold on, I agree with some of the points made, and I see that perspective as well but you guys have to admit, while things aren't moving forward as fast as we hope it would... this pope is a hell of a lot more open minded than a lot of people in today's society maybe he doesn't feel exactly like we do, but its still better than it was this will only get BETTER from here on out ...and just to clarify what made my day, was the Pope was who me and my family thought he was from the beginning, a kind hearted man with no judgment. and also, not Kim commiting that sin, but the universe payed back, what she payed forward She got punished, by karma, she screwed herself over, and now people get to see her for what she is, instead of join in on her schemes (some still will, but who cares)
Job 21 NASB I'm not catholic, so I cannot share in the hopes or desires that surround a man whom I am at odds with, one that to me is a wolf in sheep's clothing flattering with large words but then is still not doing that which is right. The Word teaches that not all that are evil get punished in this lifetime, some like Kenneth Copeland are wealthy beyond belief and care nothing for others, prospering in our world with lies while others yell for justice. Good people are afflicted with wickedness and sorrow, crying out for justice but they die beaten and bruised. I'm happy that you want to see and accept the good in people, but be careful, even Satan is described as an angel of light, with a beautiful face and as otherwise perfection. Feel sorry for Kim, because clearly she needs help. Matthew 15 NASB "But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. “Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”" It's disheartening that people are like this, but if you believe in God, He said "vengeance is mine", so let a person be to themselves as they live. (For God is a God of righteousness, judgement, and lovingkindness (Psalm 89:14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you., Jeremiah 9:24 but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD., Psalm 33:5 The LORD loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of his unfailing love.) If they are to be punished, they will be dealt with.
