Why are lesbians better accepted then gay men?

I think it has something to do with how some guys feel entitled to women, and how some guys believe that lesbians can be turned straight. Or at least that's what I've discovered from "interrogating" (I mean that in a very light-hearted way!) guys over the years. Plus (at least where I live) women usually "get away" with more physical contact between each other, before it raises eyebrows.

Yeah, you don't need me to tell you this; many straight guys are so afraid of appearing gay, that they'll accuse other guys of being gay, in order to feel more secure about themselves. It's okay to be gay, and yet many people still believe homosexuality is somehow wrong and/or inferior. It's almost impossible to get some folks to accept LGBT people. Yeah, I stopped arguing in the YouTube comments section lol.

I think society has worked extra hard to repress female sexuality. In my experience (I'm a trans guy, and I used to endure things like sleepovers with girls), most girls talked about sex just as much as most boys talked about sex. Plus I've read enough non-fiction books that reached similar conclusions about female sexuality. I could go on, really, but you get the point; fuck sexism. For the record, I just know a lot more about psychology than politics.

 

I can see that too, from where i m from i see that gay women are accepted because its perceived as a phase or a deeper form of friendship (which in my opinion is the definition of a relationship) but people are a lot more ruthless when it comes to gay men.
And its the way homophobia stems the way people express their sexuality, butch women are accepted as women who aren't overly feminine and 'go natural' but feminine men is just unacceptable and categorized in a hostile context.

 

I came out to my brother the other day, and he told told me he was bi. I asked why he never told me before, and we ended up getting into a conversation about coming out men vs women. He said society expects men to be above emotional attachments in a way that women aren't expected to. That lesbianism is more socially acceptable because women are allowed to be more open and touchy feely with themselves and those around them (the nurturer) men don't get that leeway. And he said the the media has perpetuated the male fantasy of two women together in a way that plays up to what men want to see.

It made me sad to thing that as far as we as people have come, we still restrict ourselves with such archaic views on love and relationships.

 

Is this even true? I always felt when I was a straight person that gay men were sort of the default when people think about being queer. They were the group I was most aware of as having been accepted in society because of years of activism.

 

I was going to post something similar.

I never noticed lesbians being more accepted.

 

Ditto here. These are my thoughts exactly. Maybe each of us have our own perceptions based on our own experiences, but if there was any science to this, I would be skeptical that anything conclusive could be determined.

 

because straight men get turned on by the idea of two women having sex with each other.

 

Because women are soft and pretty whereas us guys are gross and stinky. :icon_bigg

 

Based on my experiences, I think lesbians may have it more difficult than gay men in some regards. I've heard a lot of stories from my lesbian friends about being pushed by men to let them have sex with them to "make them straight."

Although, on the inverse, I think if you're a guy, and you've had sex with another guy, to a lot of women you're seen as tainted. Have any bi guys experienced this attitude?

Like the others, I kind of question this as an overall attitude - lesbians being better accepted than gay guys. I think on the whole it's probably about the same. Both genders face slightly different issues for being gay.

 

I don't think lesbians are necessarily more easily accepted so much as they are romanticized and not taken seriously. I agree with what guitar said- we just face different issues.

 

It's interesting really, since I found at my old school that Bi girls were a lot more accepted then lesbians, mainly because of the misconception of bisexuality just being " a phase".

I remember being in the changing room once and two girls were having a conversation, which I was eavesdropping on because I had nothing better to do, about how a friend who was a girl came out to them as lesbian. They said that they had expected her to at least be Bi, but not gay and that they could be friends with her if she was Bi but they weren't sure if they could be friends with her anymore because she's a lesbian.

It was really odd hearing this for me, and part of the reason I tried to stay in the closet before I was outed since I was worried that my friends might have similar reactions. I've noticed on some of these threads that people seem to think that women don't face homophobia and that we should just stop complaining.

I've noticed this view people seem to have also applies to bullying, that girls can't be bullied only verbally attacked which "doesn't count because it's not physical".

In terms of the acceptance of gay men, I can see both sides. In terms of the media- it feels like there is a lot more acceptance there. I mean when I think of representations of gay men in the media, they tend to be positive (fashionable, successful, knowledgeable, likeable) whereas representations of lesbians I've seen tend to be more negative (obese, stalker/creeper, ugly, jealous) and they tend to be killed off a lot in Movies and TV shows. I always got the impression that lesbians are seen as "uncool" really, I mean think of the G.B.F trope. There's no lesbian equivalent, and I don't see many guys complaining about the fact that they don't have a lesbian friend, but I see quite a few women complaining about not having a G.B.F.

I remember being online once in this virtual world game, and this girl was complaining about not having a gay friend. She found this guy who was gay and she was all like "Yay a shopping buddy! We can be like best friends!" and then she started throwing homophobic slurs at me when I was just sat there doing nothing (she knew I was gay but I didn't say anything or provoke her in any way).

Generally I find in circles of straight women, they tend to be more homophobic to lesbians than gay men. I usually get called "disgusting" the most as an insult by straight women because of my sexuality.

Where as in circles of straight men, there tends to be more homophobia towards gay men. The amount of times I hear "gay AIDS" throw around as a insult is too damn high.

So overall I think it depends where you look and what you experience. Also when you're a guy, people seem to think it's an either or, that you're either gay or straight. Where as when you're a woman people tend not to take you seriously and think you're straight no matter what.

Have you ever heard of the term "a straightener"? And no not the type you straighten your hair with. It's a type of slang that is used to describe talking sense into someone (physically or verbally, but usually physically). For example, "Dave was talkin' s:***::***:t last night, someone needs to give a straightner to him and straighten him out" "Yeah some one needs to give that guy a proper straightner mate" " yeah he's such a bell:***:d".

Sometimes it's used when a guy thinks he can "turn a girl straight". Example, "Yeah well
all you qu:***::***:rs and dy:***::***:es should come to the park and I'll give you a proper straightner that'll sort you out, and if you don't come then it'll be your fault that you'll still abnormal, but if you spend the night with me I'll sort you out". The sad thing is, I'm not exaggerating here. Someone actually said this in class once. :eusa_doh::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang: I'm so glad I moved.

 

Yeah, same. Lesbians are probably more fetishized, & from my experience, less acknowledged. But I'm not sure about accepted.

 

I think the roots in a lot of this can even be seen in how straight people relate to one another in their own same sex friendships. From a young age there is a level of intimacy in female friendships that is "acceptable" but largely discouraged amongst friendships between two boys.

At a certain age two young pre teen/early teen girls walking holding hands won't turn heads or likely won't make the girls feel self conscious. Boys seem to reach an age where they see the world around them and as straight as they may be the thought of that sort of physical intimacy and how it may appear to others changes the dynamics in their friendships.

 

I'm with the Cap'n and friends on this one...you suffer from a faulty premise.

It's interesting that only men seem to ask this question. Frankly, I think it's because men aren't *used* to having people be prejudiced against them because of their sex...being a man is supposed to be a blanket positive, isn't it? Ah, but if you're attracted to men, then suddenly your maleness is a detractor...gotcha!

By contrast, just *being* a woman is seen as a negative. We struggle just to be viewed as equal to men if we have the same credentials. We struggle to be considered for hiring, to earn comparable salaries, to be heard in a meeting (I can't tell you the number of times I've offered ideas in meetings that nobody has paid a bit of attention to...until a man says the same damned thing I said 20 minutes ago, often using the same exact words), to be judged on our competence rather than our appearance. Add in being queer, and you reach a new low.

So now look at relative social valuation. Take:

value of a queer male
--------------------
value of a male

and compare it to

value of a queer woman
----------------------
value of a woman

What you're actually noting is that the first of these fractions (men) is smaller, and you're saying WTF?? Ah, but the numerators may well be identical...the problem is that the denominator on the second fraction (women) is smaller...thus making the value of the fraction larger than the fraction for males. [Now, you may try to argue that the values of the numerators aren't equal, because men fetishize queer women...but I gotta point out that being fetishized is different from having higher value, and is in fact no great shakes...it's actually just another way of being *de*valued.]

So it's not that queer men are less accepted (i.e., valued lower) than queer women. It's that men aren't used to not being accepted *at all*.

Does that shed any light?

[By the way, my short pithy answer to this question is "because nobody cares enough about women or what they do to get really upset about it; men's behavior, by contrast, is terribly important, so they get more scrutiny." It's the same answer, when you think about it...but much cuter.]

 

I guess it's just the damn sex appeal to non-gay men or something. the math is simple: 2 gay chicks + 1 lonely jackass = raging hormonal attack. I'm pretty sure that sums it up. :dry:

 

personally i think that society views men as superior to women . if a girl comes out as a lesbian it is most certinly fine . but if a guy comes out as gay it is seen as a taboo . i think that most ppl c it as lowering ur selp to de level women are at n women r seen as inferior . i totally hait dis but it is just how things r ..... or at least what i have noticed .that is y girls can were trousers n look lyk men n it be fine , but if a guy weres a dress n do make up it is totally unexaptable . i just dont know y the hell dont ppl stop with their expectations n let evey1 be who n what they want . i just hope dat 1day it all changes

 

There's a lot of truth being spoken in this thread! Most of these answers don't actually negate the other answers, because the question is so large and involves a lot of different groups, scenarios, and expectations.

I do think that there is a big difference between how your OWN gender views you if you are gay and the other gender views you.

The other genders frankly just don't care that much. Guys might leer at lesbians. Girls might try and befriend gay guys (GBF).

But you face a lot of weird reactions from your OWN gender. And for men, that is generally worse, I think. Men (#NOTALLMEN, but as compared to women on average) are really, really homophobic. They will literally kill you for it, sometimes. Even nice guys will fall over themselves No Homo-ing.

But that's just how it looks to me, a former straight person who is now a largely closeted bi. Probably would look different to me if I were fully out and fully gay.

 

I don't think one is more accepted than the other. I do think they may be accepted in different ways regarding societal expectations, but not overall.

 

Accepted by whom?

All modern societies that I know of are founded on patriarchy, where men are valued more than women. Men are in control, and they're viewed as smarter and more important. What men say, think, do and value is more important (refer to someone's earlier example where an idea was ignored when presented by a women, but accepted when later presented by a man).

Things have improved, but the underlying patriarchy still very much colors how society views and treats people.

Having said that, we come back to the question of...accepted by whom? Since the vast majority of society views gender as binary, let's look at it from a binary perspective: accepted by men vs accepted by women.

Then, and I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this, there is the spectrum of gender presentation. How well are masculine gay men accepted versus feminine gay men? How well are feminine lesbians accepted versus masculine lesbians?

The degree to which an individual follows along with the gender norms plays a huge role in how they are perceived and accepted by the same and the opposite sex.

The more closely a person fits into the norms of gender expression and gender roles, the more easily they can pass as straight, and the more likely they are to be accepted by both sexes as merely confused or misguided.

Non-feminist, straight men objectify women. Following patriarchal norms a feminine lesbian is seen by straight men as either, needing a good f**k to straighten her out, or as the star of their sexual fantasies. Either way, they are objectified, but they are not typically viewed as threatening. Straight women may view feminine lesbians as confused and just needing to find the right guy.

On the flip side, masculine lesbians buck the norms on multiple fronts. They cannot be easily shoved into that sexually objectifiable box that feminine lesbians are so frequently subjected to. On the contrary, straight men may view them with hostility as usurping men's rightful place and competing for the women they see as their territory to conquer. Straight women also tend to view masculine lesbians with a great deal of hostility. They pull their children away from them, they glare at them in the women's bathroom, they make nasty comments, etc, etc.

Straight men are likely to not perceive masculine gay men with as much hostility as they do feminine gay men. I don't have a lot of experience in this area, but I do have a gay friend who I did not realize was gay until he told me. He has been out for years and is well accepted by everyone in the factory where he works (a totally sexist place if there ever was one).

On the flip side, feminine gay men (like masculine lesbians) buck the norms on multiple fronts. And these are the gay men that threaten straight men. It may hearken back to the patriarchy where masculinity is what defines superiority and everything feminine is lesser and lacking in comparison. Unlike butch lesbians, who seem equally reviled by much of straight society's men and women...many feminine gay men are sought out by straight women for their creative talents.

Upon consideration, it may not be our sexuality that has the greatest impact on our level of acceptance by straight society...but our degree of conformity to the gender norms.

Something to ponder.