LGBT News Supreme Court Declines Emergency Stay Request From Anti-LGBT County Clerk

Exactly. :eusa_clap

Guess what, I'm all for people having their personal religious beliefs, but get OUT of your job if your personal beliefs prevent you from DOING your job. I'm perfectly fine with you not wanting to grant licenses to gay folks, but if it is your job to do so, then do it or get OUT.

This is such a waste of taxpayer money. Whatever happened to separation between church and state? :bang:

 

As a woman, I really, really, really object to you calling her a bitch, Beached Whale.
Is the far left no better than the far right perhaps? Hatemongering now, are we?

In Canada we try to accommodate gay rights as well as someone's religious rights.

Some of you are reacting like the Mafia on this one in my opinion. You don't believe in religious freedom? Gays have a right to marry, so find someone in the county who will marry them. If you can't, move her into another job. You don't have to assassinate her, do you?

Each side chooses to go head-to-head... no compromise, no meeting in the middle, no consensus agreement. How very American. The cultural war continues. :bang:

If I sound anti-American, I'm very sorry, I feel like it today. Another policeman gunned down in the USA today. (sigh)

---------- Post added 2nd Sep 2015 at 12:07 AM ----------

In Canada, we had the same debate in like 2004 and as late as 2011, but it did not turn into name-calling and both sides hating on each other.

 

The state cannot fire her, as she is not an employee of the state. She is an elected official, and therefore she can only be removed from office via recall, impeachment, or somehow becoming ineligible to hold office (if she got convicted of a crime, for example).

---------- Post added 1st Sep 2015 at 10:17 PM ----------

I'm a woman, and myself and other woman call women we don't like bitches all the time. It doesn't really have the sheer force that a word like cunt has, and has never really felt any less acceptable than calling someone a dick.

Religious freedom does not allow you to refuse gays a service you offer to straights. The Supreme Court is quite clear on that.

No. It is not the right of the clerk to be arbiter of who can and cannot marry so log as all legsl requirements for marriage are fulfilled, nor should it be the responsibility of the couple to locate an elected official who won't act like a childish ass.

She's an elected official, not an employee. They can't transfer her or fire her.

Nobody on this forum wants to kill her.

I will NOT compromise or meet in the middle on my rights. I get ALL of them. Period. If I have to go to war over it, so be it. Sometimes you have to fight.

That doesn't have much to do with this, though.

Canada also lacks the American level of partisan gridlock.

 

OK. Thanks for clearing up the fact that she's elected and not an employee.

I think today was the first time I actually felt like... Yes, the rights of conservative Christians ARE being eroded. No doubt. Some jobs will no longer be open to them because of their beliefs.

I felt differently about the wedding cake debate. Not sure why.

Anyhow, it's OK. The shoe is on the other foot now; conservative Christians can face some of the same deprivation of rights gays had to face all those years because of the churches' wrong teachings about homosexuals. Much of the wrath from the LGBT community is justified. Suck it up with grace and love Christians.

---------- Post added 2nd Sep 2015 at 12:56 AM ----------

I meant assassinate her character Gentlewoman.

Apologies to Great Whale for calling him Beached Whale in return for calling a woman a bitch, rather than me turning the other cheek. I'm a very reactive person. Went back to delete it, but couldn't.

 

The issue is she is outright denying All couple's the paperwork they need from the state in order to get married. The exact rules on where and when vary from state to state, but the basic idea is the same everywhere in the US. In order to get married here, a couple must apply at a specific county clerk (occasionally a court instead), pay a statutory fee, provide proper documentation (ID, birth certificatea, divorce judgments...), possibly wait a few days, then provide the license to the officiant to get married, and then it gets returned to the issuing office after it is used.

 

Sometimes in life, you have to do things that you don't like. She is an elected official, her taxpayer funded salary is paid by straight and gay citizens of the county, and she has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, NOT the Bible. I fail to see how denying same sex couples the right to marry is a right she has. If that's the case, why has she had no problems with being married four times? That's just as much of a sin as homosexuality in the Bible, but now SHE gets to say what's okay and what's not? The only reason she's doing this is that she personally finds gays disgusting and is using the Bible as a cop-out. She needs to do her job, just like a Muslim clerk would have to marry non-Muslims, or an Atheist clerk would have to marry two Christians. Christians are not oppressed in this country.

The problem with your suggestion that they should find someone else in the county that will marry them is also that in some counties (and perhaps even in some entire states), if county clerks could get out of the marriage license business to spite gay people, they would, and this would in effect cause an unnecessary hardship for same sex couples wanting to get married, especially if they would have to drive hours from where they are to get one. If you let one clerk bypass the Obergefell ruling, don't be surprised if many, many other clerks try to do the same. She's lost, and she needs to get over herself already, and seeing as now she faces contempt of court charges if she refuses today, we'l find out how willing she is to be a martyr for the Christian right.

 

Regarding getting someone else in the county to marry them, others have offered to do that, but under the law she supposedly is the only one authorized, and she refuses to give someone else authorization to do it in her place. Yes they could technically go to another county, just like I could've technically gone to another state when my same sex partner was alive, but same sex couples shouldn't have to do that when the law has changed now.

As far as can recall, no Christians have recently been fired merely for practicing their religion in their personal life in the US. LGBT people have however been fired simply for that reason. As far as job duties conflicting with personal beliefs, that happens all the time. Suppose I'm Jewish or Muslim, and I apply for a job where I'm supposed to sell pork to customers if they want it? Or suppose I'm Catholic and work at a store, and someone tries to buy birth control pills or condoms? Suppose I'm anti gun, should I apply at work to a gun store, or anti hunting and apply at the Field and Stream store?

The place I currently work for is owned by a right wing Christian homophobic family, but if I refused service to a customer who is LGBT I'd be fired.

 

The term "religious freedom" means the right to believe and practice whatever religion you please, if any. It does not give you the right to discriminate against the groups you're prejudiced against, and nor does it exempt you from obeying the laws.

---------- Post added 2nd Sep 2015 at 11:27 AM ----------

Heck, even Antonin Scalia would agree with us on this one. Must be a chilly day in hell...

 

what bugs the freaking hell out of me, as a Christian, is that she abuses the teachings of Christ but lives a non Christian life while trying to morally superior. from my readings of the past couple days, no definative proof of this on my part.


she was pregnant with twins by her 3rd husband while married to her first. the second husband adopted the twins, she divorced him and married the biological parent of the twins, divorced him and is on her 4th husband.

she has been divorced 3 times, the Bible says nothing about LGBT but says plenty against divorce. she committed adultery at least once and that is in direct violation of Biblical teachings.:tantrum::***:

 

Wow. I knew the part about her being divorced, but not the other details. And yet she's claiming that merely signing her name on a license that says someone is legally allowed to marry under the laws of the state (not the laws of God) is a "heaven or hell" decision. Of course if she didn't like the order she could just quit, but then the money and attention she gets from this is more important to her than her religious beliefs.

---------- Post added 2nd Sep 2015 at 02:45 PM ----------

I think I may have woke up this morning in some alternate parallel universe or something. I don't normally listen to Fox news, but it happened to be on in one of the lunch rooms, and the panelists were discussing this woman. They all agreed that she was wrong, and needed to either do her job or resign so someone else can do it. :surprised I guess that old saying is true, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

I think the GOP is waking up to the fact that these kinds of public tantrums are hurting *their* cause. The Supreme Court decided gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, and that settled it once and for all. Those obstructionists like the clerk are just going to convince more people to vote for Democrats in 2016.

 

In short, I think we can all agree there is someone else far more deserving of the job, and will actually do it properly, who is being deprived of the position.

It's like a police officer who walks into a meth house, and decides it's time to take a nap on their sofa.

 

Turns out the deputies are willing to issue licenses - Kim Davis's Deputies Reportedly Say They Want To Issue Marriage Licenses But Are Too Afraid Of Davis | ThinkProgress

Most damning part is this -

Liberty Counsel to throw temper tantrum about this in 3...2...

 

She's been held in contempt and is in US Marshals custody - BREAKING: Kim Davis Held In Contempt Of Court, Now In U.S. Marshals' Custody | ThinkProgress

Best bit is this -

 

I do see some of what you're saying. As a liberal who is not very politically active/protest happy, I tend to roll my eyes at a lot of these types of incidences. Certain liberals tend to go allllllll out.

However, in this case, she is completely, whole-heartedly, 1000% in the wrong. There is absolutely no way around it. She swore to do her job and she is NOT doing it. It's very, very, easy. If she has such an issue doing this, then she needs to resign.

I think it's a shame because here's what will happen - she will go to jail but be picked up by some holier-than-though-although-they-actually-have-a-gay-hookup-account religious person, then they will claim that this has been a terrible nightmare for her. She will write a book about religious freedom, and probably become a presidential candidate.

 

I think she's being incarcerated now. Not sure though.

 

There is a phrase that goes "Freedom isnt always free." She is learning that the hard way.

 

...and here we go from the Huckster (Huckabee on Twitter):

This from a guy who, if he won the presidency, would have to swear an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. I guess he will believe in oaths the way Davis honours oaths. The Constitution, you know, that thing they have down there, what is it...oh yes, a nation of laws.

 

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/us/kim-davis-same-sex-marriage.html