I think spanking doesn't work, in my case it didn't, it only worked for one thing, but I really think it made me more secretive, the thing that works for me was taking away my stuff and grounding me. It is different for everyone though. Some children react better to spanking, some are better with grounding, others are better with having a fierce talking to.
There are ways to punish children rather than physical punishment.. that's all I'm goimgw to say. My child's job is going to school, coming home safe, and doing chores and being a kid. This world has a way of chewing you up and spitting you out. My babies aren't going to grow up jaded.. that part wasn't about spanking, but you get what I'm saying. There are other ways of discipline. ---------- Post added 4th Aug 2015 at 07:31 PM ---------- Oh god yes!!! Dude, anything my mom could find... a phone, stiletto, book, spoon, belt, you name it XD
I was spanked as a kid. And I have no ill will against my father(who was the one who spanked me. He never did it unjustly. There would be other less extreme measures taken first. No tv for a week. No phone. No friends over for a couple weeks depending on what I did. And if I showed true remorse for anything bad I did I wouldnt be spanked, just punished for what I did. But if I was being a jackass... If I blatantly told my father no I'm not doing my chores... If I acted like I ran the house then yea I'd get smacked on the ass. If I did something really bad like curse out my father or mother I get a smack on the face. And You know what, at around age 11 I didn't need to be spanked anymore. I learned my lesson. And no, I dont grow up in a household of fear. Im growing up in one of respect. Me and my father are the best of friends. I love and respect him more than anyone but, If I need a firm reminder that I'm not acting like the good man he raised me to be, a nice smack back to reality is more than appreciated. So yea I support spanking. Not beating not child abuse. but I have no problem with the way I was raised.
To be fair here, you cannot judge based upon your own family. There is no objectivity. Hense my own background was not mentioned. I do not remember being spanked I have lots of respect for my mum. My mum and dad split up before I remember. The look and the tone of voice was always enough. Fact is that objective studies show no clear advantage and often disadvantage from doing so. That's why I am against. It takes more work on the part of the parent agreed. ---------- Post added 5th Aug 2015 at 03:35 AM ---------- Ps: on average when I have seen a parent smack a child it has always been an emotional over reaction on the patents part. If you get properly angry as a parent, you have lost control of the situation, from which you have to buy your way out with the likes of spanking. Emotional control is the most important thing.
Here's my deal on spanking children. Maybe y'all agree with this, maybe you don't but it is my opinion and if you have a different one, feel free to voice it. Spanking is okay but only when it's done by a parent or guardian. Spanking should only happen as a last resort and it should only be done to embarrass a child, not harm them. Beating them or slapping them is absolutely out of the question. Why? Because your teaching your children than it's okay to beat up others instead of controlling your frustration and anger. Spanking, however, is a light smack to the rear, not a full on adult powered smack that'll do damage. Let's be honest, children can be and most likely are a handful. They are annoying, they do things they're not supposed to do and they complain and cry like whatever the situation is, is the worst thing in the world.. but with that being said, they're supposed to be annoying. They're supposed to do things wrong and complain/cry over petty things that really don't matter. That's why as a parent or guardian, you are supposed to teach your child how to behave and give them morals and lessons. Giving into every tantrum or "I hate you!" only shows them that it's okay to treat others with disrespect when they're not getting their way and hitting them when you're frustrated with their actions is definitely not teaching them anything better. If you're going to be a parent, you're going to need a lot of patience and you're going to need a lot of control. Think ahead of what set of morals you want to teach your kid, think ahead and plan out how you'd want to raise them and stick to that plan.. if you do this, you won't have to spank them.
I must say, I entered in this thread thinking I was in favor of spanking.... I was spanked as a kid by my parents, the best people I know and that believe that violence should always be avoided if possible and that love their kids, me and my brother, unconditionally. When I was spanked, and let me also point out that I can count by my fingers the times I was spanked so as you can see it was rare for that to happen and in only extreme cases... never anything too hard or even worse than a smack in the butt, I don't have any traumas or have any problems or grudges towards them, because I always was and still am till today convinced that what they did was never done with an intent of hurting me, but rather teach me how to respect others and learn boundaries... HOWEVER the more I read other people's posts, opinions, experiences, I started to have memories and little snippets of my life coming to mind, and what I realized is that even though I'm not a violent person and have very much regards and respect towards other people, there as been times when I've resorted to violence and I could even say that I felt that violence was a main to achieve a mean ... I'm not saying that I'm a violent person HOWEVER I've resorted to violence when I could have gone with another method of persuasion, and it made me wonder if unconsciously I interpreted violence as a mean to an end ... Either way still figuring it out, so in the mean time I'm not in favor or against, I'm neutral I guess...
I do support spanking if it is needed, but depend on what do we use to spank, where should we spank, how do we spank, and when should we spank? Parents are the only one who have the right to spank their kids, the best candidates to understand their kids behaviors, and the only ones who have the responsibilities to their kids behaviors. As other way to say, parents should observe, listen, and understand their kids as early as they are one year old, not when they are already grown up. What should we spank? Either by hand or a wooden/bamboo stick with the diameter not bigger than 1/4". The best is the bamboo stick because its not solid, it's hurt when got smack, but it is safe to use because it can't cause any injury. Where should we spank? Mostly at the butts because the butts muscles are big and are the cushion to protect the bone. Sometimes smack at the hands is okay. I will consider abusive it we hit other than the butts and hands, especially at the head because head is the most body part easily to get injure and might cause big damage to the brain. How do we spank? We spank them: 1. With our love and with our emotion controlling, not with letting out of our anger. 2. With intention to make them to understand what they just did is wrong. 3. Before spanking, we have to tell them how many spanks they are going to expect base on their wrongfully act and after spanking, we have to explain to them why they get spanking and have to be a good reason. 4. We have to be fair. For example, we can't spank them for cursing while we curse every day in front of them. We can't spank them for not doing the chores while we are seating our lazy butts on the chair and watching TV for hours. They will not happy and listen to us if we want them to do one thing while we do opposite. Basically, we have to be a model for the rules that we set in the house and the rules should apply to everybody, not just only them. When should we spank them? As they are the small kids, they don't have the knowledge what is right and wrong. They just act naturally as the normal kids. This is where and when parents should to observe, listen, and understand our kids. This is also the time our patience is needed the most. If the talking is worked, then there is no need to spank. If talking not work, then time-out is moved in. If time-out is worked, then there is no need to spank. If time-out not work, now spanking is moving in, but trying first 3 smacks to see if it works. If not, increase more next time. Keep doing until they get your message. This way, when they want to make the same mistake again, they will think again. With small kids less than 5 years old, talk will not work, so slight smacking at their hands is recommended. With kids between 5-10, start with talk, then time-out, then spanking either at the butts or hands. If we teach the kids early, by the time they are teen they will have an idea about discipline and they will behave better. There will more talking with guidance from parents, there will be more time-out such as no TV in a week, no texting in a month, etc... and spanking will be less and less to zero. With my kids, there is no more spanking by the time they're reached to: 14 to my boy, and 12 to my girl. But again, we have to be FAIR. We as the parents, basically we should discipline and take care our kids based on what their NEEDs, not based on what our WANTs. I am positive that they will thank us, appreciate us, and even love us more when they are grown up.
My understanding (from studying psychology) is that pain as a deterrent is not effective in the long run. My understanding (from my parents, one a social worker, one a nurse) is that the few swats on the behind that I received as a child were administered not to hurt me as a punishment, but rather to get my attention at a time when my immediate attention was required and hard to get otherwise. My own self-processing says that anyone who tries to hurt me, for whatever reason, loses all of my respect...and whether blatantly or subtly, they lose my cooperation and goodwill as well. Tell yourself all the stories you want. This one is mine.
It causes injuries in the form of pain. Which also means emotional injuries. I find this rather disturbing to read. I doubt you manage to do this all the time. There are very few parents that never get angry at children and if you're already okay with spanking children when not angry, what's to stop you when you're not clearheaded at that critical time? How does that work? Again, nothing personal but this clinical and detailed description of inflicting pain on your children is quite chiling. And by what rationale do you determine that physical pain is justified and in which ammount? So if you do something you spank your children for they're allowed to spank you? Seeing as you want to be conistent and all. Then how is spanking going to remedy that? This is the equivalent of the abrahamic god punishing Adam and Eve for doing something they could not know was wrong. How is inflicting physical pain going to teach a kid what exactly is wrong about their behaviour? This very rarely happens if applied stringently and consistently. Again does this fairness extend to them spanking you if you do something that's a spanking worthy offense? Again, how exactly is spanking going to teach them what they did is wrong? Your assumption is unwarrranted, see the available research. Both the APA and AMA counsel against spanking. And in all your wall of text, you've failed to demonstrate how spanking teaches children anything beyond "Do what I want or I'll hurt you." ---------- Post added 5th Aug 2015 at 10:34 PM ---------- Exactly. Thing is, the same result can be achieved by physically restraining them. ^This^
Yes, you DO need to have children to form an opinion on this matter. Being a child only affords you YOUR childish view, not the actual views of society and respect in general. Children, in general do form very screwed up ideas, after all they blame themselves for their parents getting divorced, even when told it has nothing to do with them. It had nothing to do with parenting skills, and everything to do with parenting according to your kids temperment. I am very secure in my parenting skills having raised a 23, 18 and 16 year old. Maybe it's the fact that people don't want to do the dirty work that comes with parenting, having to actually back up what you say with more than sitting in the corner to 'think' about consequences. Should it be used except rarely? No, but to use the time out which does nothing is bull. I love how people say they don't want their children exposed to violence via spanking, but they allow them to watch PG13 movies at 10 and play video games that glorify it. I also love that those who do not have kids, raise them so well. I recently had a co worker apologize to me because he told me "I will never spank, it's too violent and my children will never do that!" He apoligized because he said he 'had his head up his ass about kids and you are right'. You can have an opinion, but once you are faced with that situation, we'll see how you deal with it . Excuse me while I snicker in the corner....... As for violence and schools......https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/nibrs/crime-in-schools-and-colleges Data and Statistics|School Violence|Youth Violence|Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC Timeline of Worldwide School Shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States ---------- Post added 5th Aug 2015 at 04:41 PM ---------- That should NEVER be the first thought of any parent to take the easy way out and spank. That is poor parenting in general, I will agree with you on this. However, people do not draw a line between a swat on the arse and hitting a child in the face, there is a difference. ---------- Post added 5th Aug 2015 at 04:47 PM ---------- I can't say that I would take that to heart. They don't support male circumcision either, yet people do that all the time. Odd how people pick and choose what to follow is it not?
Completely missing the point. There's a reason they don't support either spanking or male circumcision. The first has consistently shown to have little to no lasting effect, nor to be effective at teaching lessons, the second has no medical necessity, has inherent risk and violates a child's bodily autonomy for no good reason. (Excepting medical 'emergencies' like phimosis etc, which they do support.) I'd appreciate it if you could answer these questions: What lesson(s) does spanking actually teach? Are you also in favor of spanking adults? If not, why not?
Lipstick Leuger, you back up your words by actually doing your best to convince the child. With the exception of physical restraint for reasons of safety, the ease of choice you decry in spanking as the first option is still the same laziness you display when you don't bother justifying yourself the entire way through the process of discipline. I'm glad you acknowledge that it is dirty work, though. I could not trust my mother if she hit me. I could not feel well safe if I knew that mistakes or hotheadedness would result in violence against me. The reason she does not spank me is that she was spanked; she was wild and rebellious in her teen years in a way that I haven't been, even though I don't want to rely on a single anecdote. Her trust in her parents was damaged in a way that she didn't want her children to experience; their love was tainted during her teen years without even a success in disciplining her. Their relationship was not improved nor was additional respect or trust gained by that experience, of even what was comparatively light spanking. Your one coworker is not proof of the universal value of spanking; that he cracked and resorted to violence isn't exactly resounding praise of your position. So many parents and children who disagree with spanking are not simply ignorant of the concept and yet to see the light; many have experiences with it and others, like myself, know how valuable it is to live in the absence of that sort of behaviour from parents.
I fully support spanking in the right situations, I was as a child, and it was hand only, no objects. I also don't feel the government should regulate it, but arrests etc should be made if it is abuse. We don't do it in our house as our younger child was abused by her mother.
What is the right situation to inflict physical and emotional pain to your child? None of the people in favor of 'appropriate spanking' have answered this question yet.
Linthras, if you do have children you will understand what I was saying. At the beginning, I said I do support spanking if it is needed. Every kid's behavior is different. Some kids are behaved good, some are challenge. If you are the parent and love your kids, you should know what solution suit the best for your kids. This requires at lot of your patience to pay attention, observe and understand your kids behavior at the beginning when your child is small about one year old. And if you can do this, you can manage your anger and you will spank them with your love (you don't want to spank your kid, but you have to to get their attention.) and with emotion controlling. At the paragraph "When should we spank them?", you will see the part I said, "If talking is worked, then there is no need to spank.... If talking is not worked, then time-out is moved in...." So we will try talking first one time or several times to understand why she/he did it, and if the kids listen and response back well then that is it you need to do from there on. There is no need to spank. Some kids response back well to talking, then best solution is talking and spanking will not happen at all. However, some kids are challenge and the mistake they made require a little bit of parents attention, then stronger punishment like time-out moves in next. I don't agree spanking right away for the first time mistake or a little mistake. Spanking always comes in the last when it is needed. Parents love their children unconditionally, always want their kids turn out and grow up to be the best kids and make them proud; unfortunately, some parents missed the points of raising the kids by increasing their level of expectations, want the kids turn out to be what they WANTs instead of what the kids' NEEDs, or can't control of their emotion every time the kids make mistake and spank them right away to get out of their anger even for a little mistake. When the emotion is out of control, violence will happen, create the trauma to the kid and might lead to abusive situation. I don't defense violence and abusive parents. "Money can be good and can be bad. It's only good when you know how to use it for the good cause." So is the Spanking.
First of all, you're begging the question that I have no experience raising children. Secondly, this is an appeal to the Emperor's New Clothes and the emperor is butt naked. I'm not just making blind assertions, I'm talking not just from personal experience of being spanked as a child. My position is based on the available scientific research and the authority of the AMA, APA, American Pediatrics Association and Children's Health services of the Netherlands. And so far you've failed to present a rational example of where it's needed. Irrelevant. You claim spanking is a jusitifiable, you need to make that case. Kids are different is not an argument. Except that the scientific research demonstrates that spanking doesn't teach what's actually wrong, instills fear, not respect, and most often the only lasting effects are of a negative psychological nature. Nonsense, there are plenty of other ways to get your child's attention. If necesarry, you can physically restrain them. And again, if you're fine with hurting your children, which is what spanking does, even if it's a 'mild tap' on the bum, what's to stop you from doing so in anger, when you no longer think clearly? Most importantly, you still haven't provided a rational justificiation for spanking. Time-out is not intended as punishment, but exactly what it says: a time-out, a moment for the child to calm down and evaluate their behaviour. That you fail to grasp this indicates to me that you do not how to use it properly. And again, how does spanking them teach them anything but to fear you and that it's ok to use violence when you don't get what you want? I never said you thought spanking right away is ok. What I said is that you haven't given a good reason to spank other than loosing control. Except you still haven't demonstrated how spanking actually teaches children anything, that it is absolutely necesarry or that you're aware of the negative aspects of it's implementation.
Linthras, you can disagree all you want, you can pull out scientific research all you want. I know and understand my kids and I know what solution suit best for my kids. My solutions work for my kids does not necessary work for your kids or somebody else's. The only thing I know now is my boy currently in the 4th year of Pharmacist major and straight A's. My girl will be graduated next year high school with GPA 4.0+ and has been taking concurrent college courses since Summer of her 10th grade. We love spending time together when we have time. They love to spend Summer vacation with us. My kids will let me know when to go and when come home every time they want to spend time with their friends not like asking permission, but rather to give me peace to know where they are. They love my cooking. They asks for our advice when they have problem with their friend or school. They manage their own money, time, and school by themselves now. They do their own chores, even cook meals themselves, etc.... And I am Happy where I am.
I certainly learned mine. I was spanked as a child and usually tried very hard to avoid it happening again. actually they do in some companies, it's just more of a metaphorical punishment. instead of the physical punishment, some companies use written warnings that accumulate and could lead to eventual firing if the behavior is repeated. in general I'd say it's more wrong not to because that more often than not it leads to kids treating their parents with too much disrespect if they weren't given this sort of deterrent to bad behavior.
