I have gone round after round with him, but I will at least get to counter one of his arguments. I know he won't change though.
I didn't mean for my original post to sound that way. I know homophobes come from all different groups of people and that there are gay-friendly Christians. I just asked this question because I have witnessed a fair amount of Christians who believe that way and it just got me wondering, that's all.
Except no one is saying all Christians are homophobes or that only Christians can be homophobic. But this thread was specifically posted about homophobia as justified by the Bible, and in American society, most of the people who do that are going to be Christians. So naturally that is what is being discussed here. We don't need to qualify any discussion about homophobia among Christians with "but anyone can be homophobic". No one has indicated anything to the contrary. Even gay people can be homophobic. But that is irrelevant to this discussion. Furthermore, the anti-gay lobby in the United States is led by Christians. Pretending it isn't isn't a way to combat it.
I wasn't really talking to you, my little rant was just to anyone that legitimately believed that about Christians. It was just frustrating seeing some people here say that about Christians, especially on a website that's supposed to be accepting and open minded.
I will answer, sure.. Just tell me one thing... What should I do? Should I lie and say that Bible approve homosexuality (or Islam, or Judaism, or Hinduism) ..? Or what should I do? If someone ask you, for example, does Bible approve adultery, would you lie and say no? Like I said 100 time, I don't care if someone is atheist or Christian or Muslim, but I don't see any benefit in lying and in living in fantasy...You know, and we all know, that there is not only one sentences against homosexuality in the Bible ( and also, there are sentences in new testament) which clearly points it out... God made us in His image? According to Bible yes, but according to Bible, if somebody is have passion for raping, or stealing, it is not allowed to do this.. That is called, according to Bible; temptation and you have resist it.. Same as Jesus resisted temptations of satan.. Please don’t force me to explain Bible, anyone who is Christian should know this things... I don’t see anything bad, to point out the facts, regardless if there is a God or not... I don’t know, what gay people should to do, but this is not the topic now... I will quote one citation from New testament: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Now tell me how you can interpretative this, to say, that homosexuals will not go in h....It is impossible.. It clearly points out.. Come on, can anyone seriously believe that this sentences can be reinterpretation ? P.S. Honestly I don’t care so much if you are gay or anything else, but that is not topic... The topic is, does Bible approve homosexuallity... ---------- Post added 4th Aug 2015 at 10:14 AM ---------- Can you give names of those religious leaders, which saying that Bible is not against practice of homosexuality? And what is more important, I would love to hear what is their answer on sentences in the Bible, which clearly points out against homosexuality... I hope there are some well-known people, and not the names for which I have never heard... The most popular atheists: Dawkins, Krauss, Harris.. They say Bible is against homosexuality(same as, all respected theologians and philosophers for which I know) ... If you have read the Bible, I don’t know how you can doubt it.. I have for you one question.... (if you really truly doubt it, that Bible is against homosexuality), if turns out that Bible is against homosexuality, what should I do? Should I lie and say that it is not or..?
Oh I am not believe me, but the OP was about a hardline homophobic Christians and thus the thread has focused on them. I will happily lay the charge and other charges of intolerance at all religions, but not all people who follow them. There's the critical distinction. a person is more than their religion just as a person is much more than their sexuality. Religion has in general been very good at fostering intolerance over the years though. Partly because they were all codified in times when such was the accepted norm and partly because of the many psychological factors which go with tribalism. Together they are a hot bed.
Yes I an atheist an an ex Christian and the message of the bible is against the practice of homosexuality. It also had several other implicit meanings however. One that if you are a woman you are ok. There is no passage not qualified with man and the word is not anthropos are the equivalent in Hebrew, and the passage in LEV is qualified further. Secondly that it is the practice of sleeping with another man that is the issue, not the being gay. I'll not mention the fact that the same passage in LEV also states that both men shall be put to death but this is no different to the rest of the chapter. Of course anybody who swears at their parents should also be put to death LEV 20:10 It's all cherry picking out of a host of stupid laws, and others not so stupid. But the rest never get any mention, they only know bout 20:18, because those using it this way are just looking for an excuse for their intolerance. Right minded Christians wrestle with it trying to find loopholes or they simple ignore mosaic law completely, because the whole verse and related NT verses are just heinous in the modern world. ---------- Post added 4th Aug 2015 at 01:38 AM ---------- Without straying into Jesus myth again , or even the demonstrable fictional nature of Mark and this the other synoptics. It's also plain that the message against homosexuality is basically in Paul and revelation. It has no mention in the gospels themselves. Hardly surprising given the author of Mark was Greek or Roman and John focussed upon Love, even ignoring the redactions. Given however the rest of the NT is written by 'inspiration' with no possible claim to real life events it's hardly surprising that existing mindset set in and Paul was brought up a Jew. Little can be said about the author of revelation. Other all though it all comes back to mosaic law. By no measure can Paul be considered an independent witness here
As theists have no good reason or evidence to back up anything within their religion, it's safe to dismiss anything they claim' straight out of hand, when they are using their religion to justify it. Personally, I don't put much stock in the opinionions of these haters and I'm not going to stop doing anything in my life because of "their" ridiculous, primitive, bulls*#t religion. Happy days
Ok First of all as a christian I went on a journey of self discovery and acceptance so with all do respect I know what I am talking about because I am a christian myself and yes the English Bible does condemn homosexuality but those verses along with many others have been open to interpretation and translation so don't tell what I do know and what I don't know. I done years of research and why does it matter if my subjects are known to you because it seems like you just want to right in your viewpoint. I am not denying what the English bible says just saying it is open to translation and interpretation. Here are some resources. https://www.gaychristian.net The Gay Christian - My Thoughts. My Journal. My Life.The Gay Christian | My Thoughts. My Journal. My Life. Meet the Young, Evangelical, Pro-Gay Movement - The Daily Beast Episcopal leadership votes to allow gay marriages in churches | Dallas Morning News What Does the Bible Really Say About Homosexuality? - OnFaith http://gaychristiansurvivors.com No matter what you say I remain grounded in my christian faith and there is nothing you can do or say to dispute that. Good day and God Bless. I am better thing to do things to do than deal with with someone who is not even christian i assume telling me i cannot be a christian who is also as homosexual. You have no right to contradict my faith journey.
You are right no one does, anymore than anyone has the right to attack another for whatever reason because of their faith. I know you are not. This is in support of both you and OP. Where I comment I comment only on precisely what the text says, comparing across the variaous translations which of course are an issue and not just that But the fact that the sources they use are not the same as the origin manuscripts anywY. I make no comment or judgement upon what someone can personally take from themselves ,unless that leads to harm to others.
If the issue is the translation, why don't we confiscate all Bibles and replace them with better, more accurate translations? But then, who gets to make that decision? There you'll find some interesting answers.
Keep in mind that "men who practice homosexuality" is itself an interpretation of a Greek word. There was no concept of homosexual relationships in the Bible that there is now. Homosexuality was something practiced between men and teenage boys in Greek society and it was naturally seen as a perversion. To equate that to the modern view of homosexuality (including the use of that term) requires "interpretation". There are other verses in the Bible that seem equally clear-cut but are interpreted a number of ways. When Jesus says "this is my body", the Catholics take it literally and the Protestants don't. In other words, interpretation.
Exactly. The translations are almost certainly made to the the liking of the people in charge. Mass religion has always been used to control the public. That's not to say Christianity or anything like that is bad, because it's not inherently. It's just that it's always changing, like Kaiser said, who gets to make those decisions?
True, which is why I use the blue letter bible website which gives you a range of translations. Also a number of supporting sites to give a range of critical scholarship interpretation in my albeit secular studies. It's a complex business. I'm not interested in the faith angle. Just the history and what the authors were trying individually to say about their personal beliefs.
Whoah this thread got chummy. I respect people that have faith, I feel like it's inappropriate to criticize Christians for doing so. But I don't really understand why some people use religion as an excuse to persecute gay people. That is never okay.
Or people of different faiths etc. A whole load of factors certainly go into why a certain percentage of believers do this regardless of particular faith.
The only person I was offended by was HrvojeO5 comment's and the the rest of you were ok. Just making that clear that I was not personally offended by anyone else's omments it was just those comments in particular.
Temptation?? really?? So, it's only considered a temptation to be attracted to somebody of the same sex but it's not a temptation to be attracted to somebody of the opposite sex? Gay people CAN control themselves, just like (most) straight people can. We don't lust over every person of the same sex, like so many people want us to believe. All gay people want is to love, just like anybody else. Yes, that verse is against homosexuality too, but as far as I'm concerned, the terms "homosexual" and "homosexuality" weren't even used until the 1940s. The bible has been translated multiple times, but most people don't want to look at the history behind it and just say, "Well, the bible says it. It's gotta be true. Case closed!" The idea of one's sexual orientation was never understood back then. The concept of "homosexuality" that we know today didn't exist when the bible was originally written. Because of that, I find it incredibly hard to believe that gay people won't ever get into heaven. Furthermore, the idea of 2 gay, consensual adults weren't ever referenced in the bible (that I know of). What we see today in the LGBT community are, in fact, 2 consensual adults of the same-sex who happen to love each other. For all we know, Paul could have referred to the "violence" of homosexual sex...(AKA rape). It's not a "perversion", an "abomination", (which also has a different meaning now than back then), or a "temptation". What I'm trying to get at is that the bible has been translated constantly over the centuries. The original bible writers didn't have the understanding of someone's sexual orientation like we do today. Oh..and by the way. The bible was written by humans inspired by God, not God Himself.
