Hi Tom91 from a fellow Londoner. I was moved by your post and wanted to say you are a not alone. Like so many others have posted in response this place is great for support as a community. The isolation you have describe is understandable when your friends cannot fully relate to the situation you are in. Despite some of the representations the LGBT community in London is very strong and there are a few open mic nights where people discuss what has happened and also a fantastic way to meet new people. Just remember you are not alone and there are people out there who will support you.
Hello Tom, I was reading Pink News and this article about Years & Years singer, Olly Alexander and the issues he faced in coming out. Olly Alexander explains how growing up in a ‘straight world’ challenged his mental health · PinkNews I thought it might be interesting to you and others, someone to relate to, I love Years & Years, the fact he sings about his experiences which you can relate to using the correct pronouns is amazingly powerful. Reading your latest post, sorry I guess I missed the email notification and didn't check here, I totally relate to what you are saying about with your parents, my sister had a boyfriend at school nothing serious but my mum went bezerk and a few other similar things to what you describe about not talking about sex, and my dads total aversion to homosexuality on TV and his reaction... Those keys mess you up a bit I guess... I went on my first date recently, wasn't anything amazing, didn't want a second, didn't really like the guy, but that was good... Also my best friend from school that I had a crush on turns out to be gay... sadly not interested in me, or vica versa really. We just became friends again really which has been great. Been feeling quite down this week though, my best friend is away and I keep thinking about what I am doing in life, and being quite negative. All the best Tom
Hi Andyrew- thanks for your kind and supportive message. I do desperately want to break this cycle of loneliness i keep feeling myself slipping into... I know i need to start trying to put myself out there a bit more. And thanks for the video link Tom- you've turned what was me being a fan of Only Alexander into a full-blown crush And congrats on your first date- regardless of how you felt it went, it's a really great step in living your life as an out gay man. And it's lovely too that you've reconnected with your schoolfriend, perhaps all the more so now you're both out, maybe you'll have a new stronger friendship from now on.* So today I finally met up with a friend from school, who's texted me every so often over the past 18 months, since i last met up with her. I was so nervous I was shaking, but I'm so desperate to make changes in my life and end this loneliness, that I forced myself to go through with it. She was of course lovely, & accepting & friendly, and i managed to share with her a tiny bit the 'real' me beneath the facade. And yet still i found myself making light of my struggles, brushing away any concern she showed,involuntary smiling or giggling when talking about myself, trivialising my issues and deflecting the focus away from me if we came close to me being genuine. She invited me along to a pub this evening where her boyfriend will be playing guitar and singing... but it felt a step too far, so I made my excuses.* I'm now feeling once again this severe disconnect between the fake, inauthentic version of myself that I seem incapable of dropping, and any real, honest bits of me buried somewhere deep inside. The trouble is, it feels so deeply buried that I can't locate what's real and what's not about myself. Therapy has got me more aware of myself than ever before, but i still really struggle to know what I really feel, and how to get it across.* I end up really disliking how i find myself coming across to people, where I don't express any honest opinions, and just end up going along with and agreeing to whatever anyone else says or does.* I suppose it's partly this deeply ingrained instinct i still have, to try and seem as normal as possible, and not do anything that marks me out as different, which was my kind of survival mechanism throughout school, uni, my relationship with my girlfriend etc etc. I know that this kind of ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy - always trying to live up to what I think is expected of me, always being how i think i should be, means i end up feeling dull, boring, uninteresting, which is exactly what i'm scared of being and makes me avoid social situations altogether. It feels like i have so much work still to do, to try and address this enormous internal conflict i feel. I've still not managed to break free from this relentless instinct to always do, be, say, act how i think I should be. It leaves me once again feeling lost and directionless, not knowing at all which bits of me are real, or what i really want to be. It's like, if i can't know myself who I really am or what I really want, how the hell am i going to be able to form friendships, let alone relationships.*And how on earth do i navigate the future, when I'm so unsure of myself...* I suppose at least i'm able now to see all this as stuff i really need to work on still, whereas i'd've used to automatically just close myself off, tell myself i'm a hopeless case who is destined for a life of loneliness. And of course I can't expect things to just be totally different straight away, when today was the first real bit of face-to-face social contact i've had outside of work for months. I'm just getting fed up of living how i've always lived, not giving myself even the chance to explore who I really am. I'm at least starting to normalise homosexuality to myself, through exposure to music like Years & Years, reading Attitude magazine, watching films and reading novels with gay characters and storylines to them. But i pretty much go about day to day life as i used to, as a heavily closeted gay man, who works relentlessly to make it look like i'm self assured and confident about who I am, when the truth is anything but...* I'm ok, just on a bit of a comedown right now, having psyched myself up so much for today, and to have got through it but for it to not have gone how i'd hoped. Struggling not to be impatient and hard on myself yet again. I both want dramatic changes in my life, but don't quite feel able to take big steps yet. Sorry for the garbled mind-dump, i just needed to get what's on my mind out there somewhere. Tom x
Hello Tom, Sorry about the crush :lol: I am glad to hear about you and your friend, maybe next time you can go to the pub? You are struggling to drop the inauthentic version because it's your defense mechanism, you are using it to protect yourself which is fine, but you've not yet experienced a bad situation when you've allowed it to drop. If you concentrate on the reality that most people recognise when you open up to them and do the same, you'll soon find that you won't need that defense mechanism, and that being yourself, open and honest is the best way to be. All in good time though. :icon_bigg It sounds like you still don't feel comfortable with yourself? You need to realise that being gay is normal, that you don't have to seem normal, because you are normal. Being gay isn't anything special, it doesn't change who you are, it isn't a hindrance or a benefit, it's just part of you, like blue eyes, or brown hair, being gay is fine. I know you know that, but do you believe it? I can talk with friends now and I occasionally referencing coming out, or some other personal aspect I would previously have hidden and they don't turn their heads and stare, or even think about it, they know I am gay, and it's not interesting to them, they are supportive in the best way, by not making a big deal of it. I agree relationships probably aren't going to be easy when you are so unsure of yourself, but you'll get there, I too feel after this date that it's not right for me yet. It's all fine, it will take time, but you'll get there, just remember to stay positive as best you can, I hope that this process has helped you to lift away from darker thoughts, and at least see there is light at the end of the tunnel? Tom
Hi Tom, Thanks for your supportive words as ever. I’ve gone through the full spectrum of intense emotions this week, from anger and hatred to inconsolable despair. After last weekend I suppose I realised more clearly what it is that makes me so actively avoid socialising and therefore feel lonely, but also how far I’ve still yet to go. I’ve gone through a lot of life intensely scrutinising and controlling every mannerism, every expression I make, so as to ensure that no one would accuse me of being gay/effeminate/camp… to now trying to override this reflex and find out how and who I really am. I am gay and I want to live life as an out and proud gay man, but I can feel myself constantly slipping back into my straight acting habit of a lifetime. I’d love to be able to let myself talk freely and openly about myself, my struggles, my sexuality, my crushes… without belittling them or laughing them off or changing the subject. It feels like I can’t locate the real me, and so it’s virtually impossible for me to ever connect with other people on any meaningful level. The Real Me’s in here somewhere, but stubbornly hidden away from everyone, even myself. I’m more aware of my habit of always being oversmiley/cheerful/seemingly at ease around other people, but it’s proving so hard to overcome. Part of me just wants to say ‘fuck it’ to the world and drop any pretence of happiness/ease completely and tell the brutal honest truth the whole time without thinking about the consequences. But I don’t think I have it in me. I’ve done a hell of a lot of crying this week. While I guess it’s a good thing that I’m becoming more and more aware, in the moment, of my dissatisfaction at the way life is for me right now, I’m increasingly tying myself up in knots of fear over what I do next. I’d really like to move out of my parents’ home, and I’d really like to leave my job. But I have no burning passion or drive in any particular direction. It’s like, this is the first time in my life I’m trying to work out what I want to do, rather than the usual what I should do. But I don’t have a clue. I’m getting all this agitation for life to be largely different from what it is now, but am just trapped by my total fear of not knowing what to do. I went to university and did an academic course because it was what was expected of me. I studied architecture, and saw it through to the end of the degree despite knowing early on it wasn’t for me, because I felt I’d let everyone down if I dropped out. I got a job related to my course… but now what?! I'm kind of in the process of stepping off the 'should do' path, but have so little faith in my ability to make any key decisions, that I feel incapable of taking the plunge. I’ve kind of been living in a limbo while getting help for my mental health, though I realise now I’ve needed all the time it’s taken. But now, my company’s downsizing, I still have my job but at a tiny company where both the directors are of retirement age and are thinking about when they eventually wind things up. I’m really fed up with the job itself too, which I find dull and unsatisfying. I don’t want to go down with the ship. I could apply for other jobs or courses in I-don’t-know-what, but it’s unlikely I’ll be able to get past an interview stage if I can’t even convince myself it’s what I want to do. Also, I’ve nearly reached the maximum of 40 sessions that I can have with the psychologist on the NHS. We’ve gone down to fortnightly to prolong it a bit, and mean it’s less of a shock when the sessions come to an end, but it inevitably feels like time is running out there too… I just feel like I want so much for life to be radically different to what it is (largely the same day-to-day as before I came out, minus the girlfriend), but I lack the resources, passion or drive to make big changes, let alone know what I really actually want.
Hello Tom, When you go through such a range of emotions it is very draining, and the thought of going to see strangers on top of work and everything else is unbarable. I do think having a couple of close friends even just to call or text can be can be a really useful life line when you are feeling despair, I haven't got the perfect setup, my best friend isn't often very good at supporting me when I am down, we're great together, but over text or calls it's hard to get her to say anything. I totally relate to your point about controlling your behaviour, this is something I still find myself doing unconsciously. I've relaxed a bit, now that I am more comfortable with myself, but I don't know that I will ever be, or would have been more effeminate, but I am certainly not super masculine either, I think guys like us are described as betas maybe? Laughing something off is often a defense mechanism to cover for something sensitive or hurtful underneath, I promise you though that talking about it feels great with the right person, as you've experience here with us, over text it's a bit harder because you are identifiable, and face to face, it's hard for me at least because I am not good at being emotional in front of friends. It's hard to believe but crying is a good thing sometimes, it can help you feel better about a situation and process it. Honestly it sounds like your very low still, and you still need ongoing support. On the point of a direction to take in your life, it is hard to give you advise here, but I think you'll find that getting out from under your parents can be really beneficial as it gives you the space to be yourself, have friends over and if you want boyfriends, it gives you space to be you, without the worry about how they will perceive you. As for career, I can't relate, if there is one thing I have always done right, is to only ever follow what I want to do, it's never been about a goal for me, but following my passion and interests. With your degree there is probably a lot you could do, and if you can get yourself into a more stable situation, it might be really eye opening to take a masters and just let yourself go and be who you want. I found my Masters an incredibly difficult and stressful time, I was very low because I was so closeted and unhappy. But I also see how with the right mentality I could have become someone totally different, and people do. I did, just not in my personal life. Life on the should do path is never fun, but life on the want to do path isn't always what you expect. If your company is scaling down, then looking for other options or getting yourself into a different situation could be terrifying but it could be really good for you. Moving to london to study for example could be really empowering and a fresh start with new people that are open minded. Equally a new job doing something different could be beneficial. What interests you? The NHS is very frustrating, the idea that after 40 sessions you are better and thats the end of it, is crazy, leaving people to themselves with such problems is bound to cause issues. There are other groups, although sadly the LGBT group I would have suggested is closing down. I would also suggest that you use this to try and focus on building a support group around you still. Change is scary, you can do it, you just need to make small changes, are you on the right medication, it seems like A/Ds should be suppressing those extreme lows you are getting, maybe you need to revisit this too? P.s. You're at 50 now so you can apply for full membership if you want to use PM to talk more directly, I am here and want to help. All the best Tom
Hi Tom, Thanks, as ever, for your kind and supportive words – I still really value your insight and encouragement. As of this week, I’m trying to push myself to re-establish contact with friends that I’ve cut myself off from. Hoping to turn some of this anger, frustration and annoyance at myself and how I find myself acting and coming across now, into a drive and determination to keep on trying again… we’ll see how it goes. The end of therapy being in sight has made me put the pressure on myself a bit, but I suppose also I’m thinking that the only way I’ll be able to survive and cope long term, post-therapy, is by learning to live more honestly, authentically and open, firstly with myself but also with other people. It sounds as if you, like me, do better in 1:1 scenarios rather than in larger groups? I used to both beat myself up about this, and was jealous of people who just seem naturally comfortable as the centre of attention in large groups. But then also having said that, I’ve always tended to avoid 1:1 situations with people throughout my life, because of how excruciatingly uncomfortable and awkward I feel when the focus is on me, and it’s where the extreme front comes up and I desperately try to deflect attention away. So I know I need practise if I’m ever to learn to be myself around people. I know exactly what you mean about struggling to be emotional in front of others. The feeling of not quite being in control of what I’m saying, and I suppose the ever-present though “I must not show weakness/uncertainty”. Growing up, I genuinely felt I’d failed as a male if I cried. I too am trying to overcome this. As you’ve probably gathered, life at the moment does still feel in a kind of limbo/temporary, while I’m at my parents’ house and commuting a large distance to a job that does nothing for me. I know that this is quite probably an additional blocker on me learning to be myself, and also on me feeling able to meet new people. Both these things (job and home) are top of my list to try and change soon… Part of me wants to say ‘fuck it’ to worrying about the long term future, and go and do an art foundation course without worrying about what job it’d lead to etc. If I’m honest, that’s what I had wanted to do when I was at school, but I felt so pressured to go to a ‘good’ university and study an academic course… and so I continued on my ‘should do’ path. And maybe try and get part time work doing whatever to support myself. Hmmmm… I’m scared, both of finishing therapy and of whether I’ll ever be able to come off antidepressants (I’m getting fed up of the side effects) or find ones that ‘work’. But then I also want to feel able to cope on my own, and I do have this growing urge in me to make changes, sod the past, and try and live in a different way to how I always have, which has clearly not worked for me. And yes, I can finally apply for membership. I’m currently part way through filling out the form – I hope I meet the criteria ok, as so far I’ve mainly used EC in a bit of a self-centred way, seeking advice and getting help and support for my own issues rather than offering my own support to other threads. But then, as you know, I’ve often not been in a great mindset for helping others. I can’t tell you how glad and grateful I am though, for all the help and support that EC, and especially you, Tom, continue to give me. Not sure what I’d’ve done without. All the best, Tom
Tom, I wish you the best with that, I've found reconnecting with friends initially nerve racking but it came good in the end, turns out we're both gay... Sadly not interested in me, but we have had a good chat and hang out occasionally now. It sounds like you are making great in-roads, therapy ending is tricky, I find it so empty and like a blunt trauma loss... It's a mechanism you come to rely on and then it's gone. However I am sure you will find ways to cope. We're here for you. Yes, for me 1:1 vs. groups is always a no brainer. I find myself at the pub with all my friends just talking to each other and ignoring me. I can't say I've ever found the 1:1 situations uncomfortable myself but I can see how that would be the case, I generally find the group conversations when people are drunk, especially if it's new people, they will ask questions about you that you don't want to answer, like if you have a girlfriend, which as a closeted gay guy I hated and totally freaked out and lied in the past... Luckily the situation hasn't come up because I still avoid those situations, but the one that did pop up, I was honest. As I've gotten more comfortable with being out and gay, I have started to realise I don't have to be anyone else but me. I've found it intensely liberating at times, but scary.. Turns out though that if you are honest with someone, they'll be honest with you. When it comes up I always admit to being a sensitive emotional guy. I don't feel ashamed of crying. You shouldn't everyone has done it and most people still do it from time to time. I love a good cry at times, it makes you feel so much better after. Working at a University myself, I often see students that have felt like they had to do a certain thing, often they don't succeed. I wish you the best with the job and home situation, when I moved to South London about 4-5 years ago it was great, I'd lived away from parents before in a small town when I was at university, but living with just one other guy and both being more mature it worked out well, I am in the same place now and with a different guy, he can be a bit of a pain but we get along and have a laugh at times. Right now, his boyfriend is away and he is studying, so he is pretty much home all the time, which is annoying as I like having a few days when he wasn't around to do my own thing, I've been trying to find a suitable guy to experiment with, but each time it's gone no where, but if it did, I wouldn't really want my house mate around for the awkwardness... Honestly, I don't know how I will ever get over the chicken and egg of wanting sex, but not being that good looking and also being inexperienced and scared to do something for doing it wrong. I keep hoping another 'late bloomer' will come along and just want to experiment for the same reasons as me. It's so unfair that life has led to this situation where everyone else had their silly drunken youth and I've got this. I've managed to avoid A/Ds, and I suspect as your life changes come into effect you'll find perhaps you can go down to lower doses, it's a difficult time for you but it's not forever, and the best bits are still to come! Out of interest what kind of course are you looking to study for your masters if you go? Thanks for your kind words, you've been a great help to me, knowing I am not alone in how I feel, helping someone else with what I am going through, it is all good. I hope you keep coming here to chat. I mentioned before that my medication has the unintended side effect of making me quite horny at times... Thats been a tricky one, partly I think this is what normal guys deal with all the time and I am still getting used to it, and partly the fluctuating Testosterone levels make me like this. But I feel a huge sense of need to have sex and experiment with being intimate with a guy. It's been a great driver in a way, I have however found out that men, rather other people can be a complete twat at times... Most never reply within 0-5 messages, one guy was a paramedic who messaged me and wanted to come over, but then changed his mind and blocked me, but not before I saw his facebook where he had a wife and kids. I've also had a guy just today on ******* and basically seems like a perfect guy until you realise the reason he is single is he is a total dick, I mean if you want to date surely you try to be nice to the other person? Anyways... things are going nowhere for me fast. All the best, and happy valentine's, lots of love! Tom xxx
Hi, I am going through the same process, but much later in life. I talked to a therapist using the app TalkSpace. It was life changing for me but it's still the hardest thing I've ever done. If you hold it in, it will eventually bubble up some other way. For me, it was major depression last year. My story is a little more challenging because I come from an abusive mother and very conservative religious family. I may never be able to come out to family but I had to come out to myself and friends. I wish you the very best and there are people here who will support you. Let me encourage you to come out to close friends first. It's important to have a support group.
Hi Tom and Hi drewdrew99, Yes, with therapy coming to an end very soon, I’m almost anticipating a kind of trauma loss. While I know I really mustn’t, and don’t want to, become dependent on it, it has given me reason to hope that things will still improve even when I’m at my lowest. I’ve been so very lucky to have the psychologist I’ve got. He’s really invested a great amount of time and energy into going with me into my issues and struggles in great depth, going over parts of my past I’d never dealt with, and helping me to try and reframe my approach to life. It was actually he who first suggested I try and find an online forum such as this. I think I’ve opened up to him more than anyone ever (apart from possibly on here). So I just feel a lot of uncertainty surrounding the ‘end’. I know the feeling, of being in a social group dreading the conversation heading into a certain direction (girlfriends, sex etc.) and dreading the focus turning to me. Yeah, I feel I can almost grasp this sense of liberation, of being ‘myself’, but it’s still out of my reach. I suppose I’m a few rungs further up this ladder I drew a while back, though not yet near the top… And you’re so right about the sex chicken/egg situation. I’ve read so many people on EC talking about gay people having a ‘second adolescence’, which is so true. And hopefully this means there’s other novice gay men like us in their mid twenties. Just need to find them! I don’t know about you, but there certain parts of my ‘first’ adolescence, where it seemed like all any of my peer group spoke/boasted about at school were their heterosexual sex lives. Made me/makes me feel a long way behind. Hmm what I'm doing next... Tbh i'm so unsure of myself and what I really want or desire that I'm plagued by extreme doubts over any ideas I have for the future. Part of me thinks I just need to try and get any old job as a way to move out and start building a new life for myself, away from this limbo I've kind of built myself into... But I also am still drawn to studying art, which I'd've loved to have done first time round tbh. But then I think 'but what next, what would I do afterwards, having built up a lead more debt...?'. I just know I'm feeling increasingly agitated with life as it is right now- especially my job/career and my living situation. I suppose you're feeling a different sort of agitation yourself, what with your surging testosterone levels and the increasing sex drive. I'm glad you've begun putting yourself out there on apps/dating sites. Though there are inevitably the twats, I hope you can just enjoy exploring, experimenting, even if just chatting to others as an openly gay guy. I think you and I both are having to practice lots and lots of patience with ourselves, things always seem to take longer than I wish they would. And drewdrew - thanks for your message. I'm really sorry to hear about the abuse and religious conservatism you've experienced in your family. I can't imagine how tough things have been/still are for you. You've done an amazing thing in seeking help and support, like me it shows that there must be some hope within you that things can be better. And if you're never able come out to your family then it's their loss, they never get to experience the whole of you- make sure you put yourself first now, and focus on building the kind of life you want to lead. And keep talking. All the best to both of you, Tom PS - Tom- I've applied for full membership now, will let you know if and when it's granted x
