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LGBT News Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wrong

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by BryanM, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. BryanM

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    Story here:Almost Everything You've Heard About The Anti-Gay Sweet Cakes Wedding Cake Case Is (Probably) Wrong - The New Civil Rights Movement

    I had to post this to show to many people that this was not a case where a couple went to a bakery where they knew they would be rejected, and that this isn't a case of freedom of speech, but is actually a case of discrimination. Many right wing sites have tried to post inaccurate statements about this case, but this article does a great job of fact-checking.

    tl;dr: This case is not how many people think it is, and is actually a case of discrimination based on status in a minority group.
     
  2. Caleb93

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    This doesn't make things any better. The business owners have a right to choose who they do business with just as consumers can choose where they shop. No, it would not be pleasant to be turned away but it is no excuse to bring the iron fist of government down on those who would dare to have beliefs different than yours and who would choose to apply those beliefs to how they do business.

    Write a bad review. Warn other gay couples to avoid the place. But don't steal from another family because they acted on their religious beliefs that you happen to not like.
     
  3. allnewtome

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    I am one of the people here that has spoken out in the past on the topic viewing it similar to you. I'm a business owner and as such have echoed the sentiment that as the owner I should have the right to refuse service as I see fit.

    However this article has caused me to pause and rethink. This bakery was happy to do business with the couple when it pertained to a cake for a straight wedding which just reeks to me of something wrong when they'll gleefully accept money from a gay people to celebrate a wedding unless of course the wedding is for themselves.

    To top it off they could've articulated their beliefs and reasoning in a manner that was less in your face ignorant. All the couple did was file a complaint which I believe they had every right to do. It was the business owner that dragged the issue and the couple into the publics attention that goes far beyond simply refusing service.
     
  4. GeeLee

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    The bakery knew the law, chose to ignore it and have acted like petulant children when they were called out on it.

    I've got zero sympathy for them.
     
  5. dano218

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    I have to agree with this. I understand in some situations this might be a bad thing where a bakery in a very conservative state won't back you a cake and you have to go a state a way or a few towns a away to get one and that is a huge inconvenience for many people. While I understand in some circumstances this would be a huge problem for many couples but at same time I think we have to find a way to respect all beliefs no matter how much we disagree with them. It is a matter of conflict for me.
     
    #5 dano218, Jul 7, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  6. Linthras

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    No they don't.
    Not if they plan on using public services and tax breaks to run their buisness.

    It's got nothing to do with stealing.
     
  7. themonkey319

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    If you wanna focus on the defamation piece of this whole issue, I agree that the gay couple is totally right. Anyone who gets that kind of unwarranted public vitriol should have some recourse.

    However the discrimination piece of this is outrageous to me. Company doesn't want to bake you a cake? Go somewhere else and get a cake! Why on earth would you want a WEDDING cake made by someone who hates everything that it stands for? You're then gonna go crying to the government WAHHH THESE BAKERS DON'T LIKE GAY PEOPLE AND THEY WON'T MAKE MY CAKE. Please, it's time for us to grow up.

    The real answer to this sits right in the middle of that article: "It wouldn't be long till Sweet Cakes' referral network began to dry up. The people of Gresham, Oregon knew discrimination is wrong — and they'd prefer not to be associated with that sort of bigotry." So they take it to the internet...do the same thing there! Make it crystal clear to anyone who would do business with them that they are bigots. Wham bam thank you ma'am.

    I am all for bringing attention to bigots and pointing out their misgivings and why their opinions and attitudes are not for the betterment of our society. But this shit about legally forcing a business owner to do business with someone it doesn't want to do business with for ANY reason at all I think is just as wrong as choosing not to do business with someone because of their private life. We'll never change the hearts of people with a heavy hand. Only with love and persuasion.
     
  8. KyleD

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    If they have such religious beliefs they should NOT be running a business. They are the ones who are stealing from gay people.

     
    #8 KyleD, Jul 7, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  9. dano218

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    Don't get wrong I get what your saying but what about problems you may have in majority conservative areas. Let's say no bakery in Mississippi or Alabama will bake you a cake and you have to drive hundreds of miles to just get a cake. I mean i think lawsuits are not the way to go about it but you have this problem where you may not have another bakery to reasonably go to and that is not fair to anyone. I don't think their fears of going to hell for baking a gay wedding cake is rational even thought I am christian but that is cannot defend religious freedom without bringing this possible problem into question. What is the solution to that?
     
  10. Psaurus918

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    I don't understand why anyone feels the need to mix religion and business. Just because they bake a cake doesn't automatically turn them gay.


    I hate hate the confederate flag, but if I owned a bakery and someone ordered a dozen cakes with it on it you bet I'm gonna take their money. These people are too dumb to be in business in the first place.
     
  11. dano218

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro


    I don't know how stealing is coming into this but we should find ways to respect the personal religious beliefs no matter how irrational they are we should still find ways to respect their beliefs. I could certainly and proud discriminate against a conservative wedding so why should they not not be allowed to discriminate against a gay wedding. I get how this could be a issue in very conservative areas but we got to be fair and reasonable with everyone. I don't want my money going to bigoted store owners anyway.
     
  12. allnewtome

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    This has been an area of conflict for me as well but where do we draw the line? If all the county clerks in a state say it's against their beliefs to issue marriage licenses do accept that as respecting all beliefs? A Jehovah's Witness doctor refusing to perform blood transfusions because it's against their beliefs?

    Had the bakery not so blatantly been so ignorant and had they not thrown the entire issue into the public realm perhaps my views wouldn't have changed. The hypocrisy of taking the women's money when it was for a straight wedding then no only denying them business but to admonish and then try to publicly shame them is beyond atrocious to me.

    Had they handled it in a "polite" yet gracious way rather then the way they have I'd perhaps see it as the businesses right. And with further retrospective maybe I will again see it as the businesses right but if it's their right to deny business it is as a business owner not on the basis as being their right ps as religious freedom and there was no right for the publicly shaming if the couple.
     
  13. Caleb93

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    Under what definition of "stealing" is the bakery stealing from anyone? Explain please.
     
  14. Linthras

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    You're begging the questions that:
    A. Buisinesses are upfront about their homophobia all the time. Which wasn't the case in this instance.
    B. Companies should be allowed discriminate against whoever they want.
    The US did that already, and excused it thusly:
    [​IMG]
     
  15. dano218

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    Yeah that is the question for me as well. I would glad accept some religious freedoms but the whole problem is where you do draw line. Do you for the sake of everyone ban all kinds of discrimination or do you allow people do express their beliefs. Your giving people the freedom from discrimination while taking away others freedom to discriminate. How do you balance the two out while making sure no over the top discrimination takes place. i don't have the right answer in all honesty.
     
  16. BryanM

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro


    Freedom to discriminate is a bit of an oxymoron don't you think? People do not have the inherent right to take away rights from others based off of things they cannot change about themselves. There should be no balance. People need to be respected, not belief systems that do not need to be expressed in a place of government or a business that serves the public. Businesses can also not have belief systems since they are not people.
     
  17. Linthras

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    The thing is that religuous freedom is about inidvidual beliefs.
    Companies do not have beliefs, they're a buisiness, their only theology is making money.
    And especially when using public services and legal benefits, buisinesses are not private entities.
     
  18. dano218

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    I can respect that logic. It does make a lot sense to me. It is just many people don't see it that way. Not that i agree with it but they think they basically are going to hell if they don't abide by their beliefs. But than again take a gun shop for example. A person sells a gun and commits a act of murder are they gonna fear going to hell for unintentionally selling a firearm that committed a act of murder. I mean i get what your saying and I wish people say it that way i really do. A business is a business and should act as such especially in a public place. It is not like a private in house type business where i can respect that but in a public place i think beliefs should not play any part in how you run your business.
     
  19. GeeLee

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    If you protect the "right" of a business to discriminate against gay people for religious reasons, where exactly do you draw the line? If a business wants to discriminate against inter-racial couples for religious reasons, is that something we should protecting and if not why is that sincerely held religious belief not protectable but anti gay religious belief protectable?
     
  20. dano218

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    Re: Everything You've Heard About the "Sweet Cakes" Wedding Cake Case is Probably Wro

    That is exactly why discrimination needs to be banned all together for public businesses for the most part. I understand their reasons as irrational as they are but discrimination is very dark territory and if you go there where is the line drawn. It is sad that people believe that they are going to hell for doing some specific public service but at the same time a public business should be open to all of the public.