Hijabs on girls

Some of what I said in the quote was deleted (just an alert if anyone is jumping in now).

Who is anyone to dictate from where a woman can and can't draw empowerment? If a Muslim woman freely chooses to wear the hijab because she feels closer to God while fully knowing that other Muslim women choose not to do so seems like empowerment.

Further, insisting that woman is wrong about what she wears or negating her sense of pride in religious garb strikes me as oppressive as well. If she thinks that participating in this "modesty" brings her to some spiritual enlightening, who is anyone to say otherwise?

 

Ethnocentrism and people thinking they know what is best for everyone else.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

You accuse me of being arrogant and then respond in the most condescending way, reducing the argument to a single, very generalized term and a stupid meme.

I wish I could live in such a sweet, beautiful, peaceful world as yours in which everybody lived equally in all cultures and could, of their own free will, derive empowerment from whatever the hell they choose.

But we don't live in that world, and I have absolutely no problem in asserting that women live better, more equal lives in secular societies. Culture, like religion, is not impervious to criticism. And while some things are nearly intangible, the consequences of culture and religion in everyday life are not - such as women's education & suffrage, domestic violence, and unequal justice systems.

You all seem to be starting from the baseless assumption that all cultures are equal. For what reason? They are a set of human behaviors like any other. Sure, any one person is going to have a natural tendency to see issues in other cultures in a light favorable to their upbringing, but that doesn't mean they should just give up on looking.

I also wonder how you can reconcile the women's rights movement and the gains it has made with the pure cultural relativism you're espousing. If all modes of life and all cultures are equal, what exactly was the point in changing how women live in the first place? Shits and giggles?

Also Note: My deletion of some of what sugercubeigloo said wasn't some deceitful trick. I merely quoted the sections of what he said that I intended to address.

 

The meme wasn't directed at you, I was merely responding to what Austin wrote and the "white man's burden" in general. I can't really see where I called you arrogant, if that was meant for me. I don't care to get into anything right now.

 

They can look nice, although I'm not really a fan of head covers. (Unless it's hot and you have the risk of sunburn).

Also not a fan of the idea that it should be mandatory for groups of people to wear or not wear stuff based on social/religious/gender/whatever beliefs.

About the cultural appropriation: It used to be traditional in my non-Muslim area for women to wear head scarves to cover their hair (About 50-100 years ago). It's not a strictly Arabic/Muslim practise.

 

I think they look really cute! I'm a sucker for a sweet face, and hijabs frame them so well

 

Fair enough. I see that you were simply responding to his post. I assumed arrogance was implied with "white man's burden" and ethnocentrism being used to describe my arguments.

 

If you guys want to debate about the ethical concerns of the hijab, go to my recent blog post and have a debate there

http://emptyclosets.com/forum/blogs/anthonythegamer/11474-hijab-burqa-bans-stupid.html

Honestly, I don't really care if you guys have this debate. I like debates about social issues, but that is not the intention of my thread. I'm sorry that I have to call you guys out like this.

 

Don't be sorry about that, anthonythegamer, you clearly stated no politisizing when you made the thread! If people break the rule, of course you have to tell them.

 

I see them as nothing more as a symbol of female oppression.

Also, women look beautiful just the way they are and do not need to be covered up.

Happy days

 

[I'm going to retract this part.

And just let it go... ]

---------- Post added 22nd Jun 2015 at 11:33 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

Nope! I'm done.

I guess this is a trigger for me. I'm turing into "that person." I never do that. It feels weird.

My apologies.

 

I don't find them attractive and I don't find rational reasoning in covering your entire head/hair with something unless it's weather appropriate. Then again I wear the high Nike Elite socks outside when it's 95 degrees for no other reason than I like the way it looks. We all march to the beat of a different drummer.....

I'm not looking for a religious or political debate, but I think it's pure bullshit that muslim women are required to wear them while men are not. Actually it's just bullshit in general that someone would feel required to wear that. If you want to wear it, awesome. If not, it shouldn't be enforced. This is primarily why I hate religion, other than the fact that it starts war after war, it makes no fucking sense. I could never understand what hiding your hair, head, face(burqa), has to do with the price of vagina in China. Because the Qur'an tells you that a man should look at a woman from behind a curtain? I've heard some dumb shit in my day but excerpts from the Qur'an rattle my brain entirely. I can't even talk about it without getting angry.

 

ANYWAY! I think they're beautiful ^^

 

I love hijabs! I like how they're cultural, and they look great on everyone who wears them!

 

Sure we could just ignore the fact that there is social pressure to wear hijabs. You can imagine what a fundamental islamic family would think of a woman or do to her if she decided one day to just abandon the religion and stop wearing the hijab. I understand that you are "free" to do a lot of, perhaps considered controversial, things in a lot of democracies, but there's still a risk to it. Much like it still is in many countries to live as gay or even worse trans, whom suffer even more prejudice. So don't come tell me "women aren't forced to wear it" because in reality they are, whether enforced by law or not.

Of course you could argue that a parent should get to force their child to wear a hijab and force them to attend religious schools til their 18th birthday (like many children are). Then the child is free to do whatever they want. But consider this: the only 18 years that this person has lived has been in an environment strictly indoctrinating them with one teaching, leaving them with no perspective on things. It's not like they are just gonna rip the hijab off and renounce their faith because they are free to do so. The best way to ensure children have the chance to choose their own path is to forbid the hijab on children and forbid religious schools, whether christian, islamic or whatever. Also, why should a child even have to wear a hijab. Aren't hiijabs for modesty, to "hide what's sexual" about a woman. Why would a child of 10 have to hide anything? It's honestly sick to force a child to wear one!

It's not like islamic boys are forced to wear something to veil themselves. So in what way does the hijab work for a better more equal world? If you as an islamic parent force your daughter to wear a hijab, you damnwell better force your son to wear one too.

"to employ a sweeping negativity toward a symbol that some nazis draw empowerment from seems perspectively limited."

"to employ a sweeping negativity toward a symbol that some rapists draw empowerment from seems perspectively limited."

"to employ a sweeping negativity toward a symbol that some unicorns draw empowerment from seems perspectively limited."

"to employ a sweeping negativity toward a symbol that some enter choice of plural noun here draw empowerment from seems perspectively limited."

Yes, you can say that.... about pretty much anything. Even a symbol representing something so vile as mass genocide, the swastika. Your claim doesn't have any relevancy to it. It's just a load of gobbledegook.

It doesn't make a difference if women "choose" to wear the hijab. It's still going to be a symbol for oppression for as long as religion is still a thing. Much like the Swastika will always be a symbol for Nazism and mass genocide.