Opinion on drag. do you like it?

Yeah, I like it. Its fun. And that's the point. Just that it is a bit of fun. Not a political statement or anything else.

When I was a boy, I adored the female impersonators Hinge and Bracket. Like the best of British humour, full of innuendo. I had a great aunt who refused to believe they were actually men.

 

No

 

I think drag is cool. I would like to try drag sometime.

 

Um, who do you think started most if not all revolutionary activism? Who do you think has taken care of the poor gay kids being kicked out of their houses for coming out? Drag queens were the moms and homes for many people. They threw the first rock and they went to jail for taking a stance for what they felt to be right.

Drag has a long history of revolution combined with entertainment. Its beautiful.

 

It's just clothes. A cisgender guy can wear a dress all he wants I don't care. A cis gender girl can wear a suit and tie. Whatever.

But specifically drag with the overblown makeup that is unique to drag queens... I hate that and never have and never will.

When I was forced to be cis I was a crossdresser. And I still am having to dress in male clothes now that I identify as a woman.

Go figure.

But again like others said the overtly tacky drag appearance doesn't feel serious nor does it necessarily embody what a transgender person is trying to present themselves as.

 

No

No

Aggy Dune

 

No. Completely clueless when it comes to it. Was once in a bar, which I don't really like going to, when on vacation and it had that theme that night and I was checking out this guy who reminded me of a guy who I thought was the hottest I recall while in grad school ... and ... he was watching the show. I didn't even notice what was going on up on the stage. I can still visualize the guy, though. Drag? Whatever floats someone's boat. It sinks mine.

 

To put it politely, I don't think it's up to you to decide what's a "healthy" expression for a trans person or not, especially considering your own lack of experience there. Sure, some find it foreign, demeaning, and want no part of that community, but there are others who wouldn't have a support network to fall back on if not for. Here, our community is smaller, so working together is more of a necessity, and with not bad results.

I also don't think you can compare minstrel shows to drag: it's just as much a part of gay culture as pride parades, the leather scene, or bars. It's been a way for an oppressed group to be themselves and escape from the realities of homophobic violence. And while black face comedy pokes fun at someone's physical characteristics, I wouldn't say every woman puts on excessive make up and accessories the way queens do. If everyone, or even a majority, were in agreement that it were demeaning, you might have a point, but many don't, so it will probably continue in the future.

The only reason you seem to be against it is because men are doing so. Your views mirror those of rad fems who say trans women are really "men" who "mock" women's and their bodies by conforming to traditional roles and beauty standards. Quite a double standard, and seems more like choosing an easy target to attack.

 

I haven't done it but I might some time in the future.

 

Your anger is misdirected, dear, and I suggest we drop this.

I did not "decide what is healthy for transpeople". I shared my impression. I do believe I'm allowed an impression. I didn't even suggest that my impression should be adopted by others.

I believe I can and did compare drag to minstrel shows. You disagree. I disagree with your disagreements. That's ok. I'm not up for writing a dissertation on the subject.

I've stated twice in this thread that I am completely sympathetic to transpeople's needs to present as their brain-sex. I think my overall record here speaks for my supportiveness of the trans community, and I find your trying to paint me as transphobic to be offensive and pathetic.

I did not enter my opinion on this thread to attack anything or anybody. I entered it because the thread title asked for it, and I think I've been pretty moderate in expressing my thoughts. Who exactly is under attack here? Gravechild, I have often respected your views in other threads, and I'm sorry if my thoughts touched a nerve for you...but there is no reason and no value in trying to pick a fight with me.

 

Not really. I mean, you yourself admitted to not "getting it", or being incredibly knowledgeable of drag, but if you're going to level judgments on the entire community, ie they disrespect women, it's similar to minstrels, unhealthy, then yeah, someone who knows otherwise is going to disagree with that. You're allowed to have an opinion and voice it, but so are others allowed to correct you.

I'll grant you there are individuals who disrespect women, and certain traditions are less-than-egalitarian, but you didn't say that in your original post. No you can't substitute one axis of oppression for another, because that between men and women is different from that between blacks and whites. Since you're not interested in going forward, though, I won't get into details.

And sure, it is annoying for trans feminine folk to hear constantly from women that they're pushing women's rights fifty years back, or reduce womanhood to an act. What I'm hearing is that one must live as a woman full time to be able to express themselves in a way that are at odds with society. These performers aren't disrespecting women: many of them are paying respects to them.

Black face comedy was pretty mainstream, and done by a much more powerful class of people, whereas LGBT only make up a small amount of the overall population, and those who fall under drag performers, even smaller. So it's not a very well known culture, and misconceptions are commonplace. There's also no shortage of negative feelings, which is no surprise, seeing how stigmatized men acting like women seems to be...

 

Oooh sweeties, I wish it weren't nearly 1 AM, or I would come between my two very dear friends. I want to try tomorrow and explain the communication problem. Gravechild, my friend Annika has been nothing but affirmative of me and other transfeminine, trans and genderqueer people.

I can definitely credit that she's not making an argument straight out of Unpacking Queer Politics.

With warmth and sisterhood to you both, Adrienne.

 

I'm with Camel in this. Yes, I know that drag queens kickstart the revolution and thus we can have communities such as these nowadays. I'm grateful for that. But, can we enjoy fun just for the sake of fun without anything political involved? Sometimes we need to be able to poke fun at ourselves.

This thread is getting serious, it terrifies me *hides*

 

Drag doesn't do anything for me. I like guys that look like guys, though I'm attracted to a certain amount of effeminacy. Women look better than drag queens, and if I'm attracted to drag queens, I would be better off just getting a woman...

 

Be clear here. "The entire community"...meaning the entire trans community? I never said nor intended to imply that the trans community disrespects women or is unhealthy.

I didn't even say that drag itself disrespects women or is unhealthy. I said I felt there were more healthy ways to present as a woman...that does not imply that drag is sick. And I said that a non-trans-person "having a night of fun 'enjoying the trappings of being a woman' without having to endure any of the actual realities of being a woman'" "smacks heavily of disrespect"...in my view, as I understand it. This is not a leveling of judgments. This is sharing one's (not-terribly-well-developed) feelings.

I do think the comparison to minstrel shows is there to be made. Yeah, it's not on the same scale, I absolutely grant (again, my statement was "kinda like"). But people of all classes and races attended and enjoyed those shows, and they were seen as simply "entertainment" and "for fun". I don't think this thread or this forum would benefit from a more detailed analysis...I'm trying to provoke thought; not step on people's feelings or engage in a campaign to end drag shows.

Never said that, I don't feel that, and I resent the words being put in my mouth.

Exactly this was said about minstrel shows (replacing "women" with "black people"). It was a bad argument then. I leave it to more knowledgeable people to decide whether it makes a better argument now.

I am not your enemy. You are not helping any cause by engaging in this. If you continue to attribute words, thoughts, or attitudes to me that I don't have, we'll just continue to dig deeper into a subject that clearly is dear to many.

 

I've cross dressed privately 0n ocassion. It would be fun to try being a drag queen. I've been to many drag shows. They are fun! My favorite drag queen is Jazzmyn Alexander. She/he has kissed me a couple of times! (!)

 

I would agree with this general statement. I appear as a woman. I don't want to be perceived as a drag queen. It's not what I am.

I respect it but it's not for me.

 

I'm not a fan and I don't see myself doing it anytime soon.

 

Pleaaase don't lock the thread. I have important conciliatory things to say.

Adrienne

 

Honestly, just based on your avatar, I assumed you were female. Actually you look quite nice.