Atheism and moral compass (not a religious thread)

You read way too much into that

What they were saying was

IF a person is only doing good because of fear or punishment or in hopes of a reward, than they aren't really a good person.

It's just a front.

 

I agree in some aspects. There are some christians with good intentions who sincerely believe that doing good is their christian duty and that doing their christian duty is what gets them a ticket to heaven. But at the same time you want to do things out of the goodness of your heart and not because God told you too or else you go to hell. That would be more like giving pity than doing good. I look at my life and with no disrespect take God out of the picture and see ok if there was no God would I be this kind or loving. It is a good question all christians must ask themselves but in spite of that doing good and having morals should be a human thing overall not just a christian thing. Like some democrats they view their morals as separate from law. They can oppose abortion personally but according to the law they have no say over a person's body. I read too much into anything that is the kind of person I am I look at angle, every aspect, and every perspective so yeah I try not be so self centered.

 

You know I hate the argument that Christians like to use against Atheists where they essentially say something of the effect "Without a God how can you have morals? What keeps you from murdering people?" or w/e


Everytime I hear that argument I always think to myself "Are you suggesting that if you didn't believe in god you'd go murdering people on the street for no reason"

 

I agree that is a horrible argument and should never be tolerated. I am sorry if I implied that. Why you think i left the catholic church lol

 

Oh I know you weren't implying that, what were talking about ( and this thread in general ) just kinda made me think about it.

 

I'm not accusing you of this Tightrope, but this question has been answered for decades. Just as in Pascal Wager and Thermodynamics, the religious community seems to pose this question in a sort of "aha!" tone, like it's a shaking question. But it's not. My morality comes from my upbringing mostly. However, the tenants of that morality come from a long tradition which comes from tribal survivalism. If it's okay for me to hurt you, it's okay for you to hurt me. I don't know about you but that's not a very good survival polIcy. Same for rape, I don't want to be raped, stealing I don't want to be robbed, molestation, I don't want to be molested or have my children molested Etc. It's as simple as that. No overbearing dictator needed..no eternal damnation. Obviously not everyone follows this code as seen through people like the Boston Bombers, the VT shooter, etc. So it's impossible to argue that the code is written in our hearts as the Judeo Christian teachings say. It's just survival. While those that kill tend to end the lives of those that dont, their lives tend to be short lived and their spawn don't tend to share the same evolutionary flaws. It's a fluke in the mind to be a psycopath. Humans are social animals, we are weak stringy meat bags with unusually apt brains. We need numbers to survive. To survive in numbers we need to treat each other fairly. That's why the more violent regions of the world tend to be the most degraded.

 

Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins have great takes on this.

In a nutshell: human beings are predisposed to be good and help each other out & care for each other. Society does not have enough police officers to police society.

The argument that we need a belief in supernatural punishment always makes me laugh, and question the person asking it; "do you mean to tell me with the threat of hell you would rape and murder?" How were the Jews able to make it to Mount Sinai without killing each other without the ten commandments? Because we intrinsically know better.

 

Fallingdown pretty much summed up my own moral compass.

 

Forgiving someone is not about defending the crime. What is wrong is wrong and there is no denying it but when i forgive someone I don't do it by condoning the crime ever. Christians don't take forgiveness lightly and it is a very hard thing to for most christians to do. I am not perfect and heck even though my religion preaches forgiveness I find it very hard to forgive sometimes but know a understanding God is always by my side. But morality should be of human concern not religious and i think everybody can agree on most basic morals without including religion.

i also believe forgiveness should not be forced which some christians do. God understands anger and resentment and respect the process of all feelings. In all honesty i do feel better when I do forgive thought.

 

I don't need or want a god to decide for me what's moral and what isn't, or anything else about the world or my life. Anyone that can think for themselves (which is everyone) is capable of doing that.

 

We are social animals with high intelligence...I think morality is another way for us to make sure the survival of the species.

 

I can agree with that!

 

This is going to get deep:

My moral compass is fortified by the fact that I don't believe in religion or any form of afterlife.

I do not even attempt to claim that I know whether there is a higher power, meaning, or system to life. I would argue more that it is something that humans could never truly comprehend rather than there being no chance of a greater order to our existence; however, it is the fact that I have little faith in an afterlife that causes me to value life. It is the reason why I am adamant about adopting children rather than creating new lives. It is the reason why I am so ambitious when it comes to the things I expect out of this life. It is the reason why poverty, oppression, and social issues in general are extremely important to me. All because I believe that our ability to find fulfillment, happiness, and purpose within this life is the single chance that we will ever receive.

It is the fact that I believe all life to be so finite and fragile that causes me to respect it. If I believed that life was anything more than a moment, then I don't suppose I would be so adamant about fostering ethicality, equality, and positivity in society because I wouldn't believe that this is their only chance. Throughout history the lives of the poor, oppressed, or unfortunate where justified on the grounds that they would have the opportunity to live a better life in another age or would be seen as equal in the eyes of God. I would find comfort in the belief that all who are worthy would find happiness in salvation if I were religious. It is because I cannot believe that ideal that I feel a deeper obligation to work improving the happiness and contentment that people can find in this life.

Side note: By fortified, I am not suggesting superior. I am not claiming that because I don't believe in religious ideals I am forced to be a better person, rather that I feel a greater sense of guilt on the subject of immorality or injustice because I don't believe that human beings have anything more than this life. To have such an opportunity rob of them or hindered by society is a grave loss in my mind.

 

While it's true that religion can strengthen one's moral compass, it can just as easily be a tool to commit atrocities "in the name of good."

Likewise, if you approach life a-religiously, it's entirely up to you to decide what your singular life will mean, and what kind of mark you wish to leave on the world, be it a blessing or a scar.

I'm inclined to believe that we humans won't be any more or less moral without religion. Just as we'll have our own reasons to live life with hope, compassion and ambition, we'll find another way to express the most disgusting aspects of our humanity and justify them, without the need for an afterlife or a god. That's because we have inventive minds.

 

I'm more or less with AKTodd on this. What we know as good or bad is understood through our culture.

However, I would be cautious to see that it's entirely by a religion, or entirely not by a religion. There's definitely a mixed bag of ideals we hold, through thousands of years of our understanding of life and what's around us. Some of it is from religions long ago, which have formed themselves into what we know as Semitic and Abrahamic religions. And some of that is mixed with other ideals people have recognized. It's like language. The English language isn't an original language. It's a salad of other languages. Likewise, today's cultures are mostly salads of ancient cultures and the progressions thereof.

So what I know now is likely to be different than what people centuries in the future will know.

 

As an agnostic, I really don't think morality comes from religion. Sure, it can help you form values, but all it takes to have a sense of morality is to be a decent human being. It's simple: Don't take shit that's not yours, simply because you're not entitled to take it.
Don't harm anyone who hasn't harmed you, simply because there is no justifiable reason to hurt someone who has done you no wrong.