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What Makes a "Man/Woman"?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Kaiser, May 14, 2015.

  1. Kat 5

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    I saw this on a shirt today: A real man uses 3 pedals.

    I immediately thought 'True. Real men fuck with the environment. But I have some bitchin' shift paddles, and I'm somehow faster and cleaner than you.
     
  2. NamesNotJake

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    It's what you feel between your ears. THATS IT
     
  3. Miles16

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    What makes a man?

    [youtube]9HSj-2shbqY[/youtube]
     
  4. bicomplicated

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    My best answer is people recognize men and women based on their biological makeup... how they look... but of course even "tomboy" girls can be confused by other people as guys, and anyone can confuse anyone's gender. I don't think gender really matters. It is for sure more important to just be yourself! Yes, you are whoever you say you are and no one should argue with you otherwise. Just do you and F***! anyone who has a problem with who you are. The people worth your time will accept who you are. I also hate sterotypes "pink is for girls, blue is for boys, girls must play with dolls, boys must play with action figures, men must be tough, women must be delicate." I try my best to combat male\female stereotypes when it comes up in my preschool class. Be whoever you want to be! :slight_smile:
     
  5. biAnnika

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    Oh hell, I know I'm just going to piss you off again. I guess I'll just apologize now.

    Let's get the easy ones out of the way first. Just like every stone is a real stone, and just like all kittens are real kittens,
    • Every man is a "real man".
    • Every woman is a "real woman".
    • So yes, just be you, because there's no real reason to be anything else.

    But sheesh, woman, with regard to your main question, what is it you *really* want to know?

    I mean, isn't a man technically any adult with male gender identity, and a woman any adult with female gender identity? I know you want depth and everything, but isn't it that simple? I somehow feel like you're wanting to get at something else, but you don't want to tell us what it is. Care to elaborate, or have I given you exactly what you wanted?
     
  6. Kaiser

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    The depth is that there isn't a right or wrong answer, because everybody has their own idea as to how to perceive this. It's a jab at gender roles and ridiculous assumptions, and whether or not folks prescribe to them as fact or possibilities.

    That's the most simplistic way to put it. And you've provided a fine answer, Annika, though Justinian20 really drove it home. Still, randomly me had the funniest answer.
     
  7. biAnnika

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    Ask me for definitions, and I'm afraid you won't get light-heartedness. I take those things deadly serious. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  8. Burnedcloset

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    Real men swallow.

    LOL (this is what I say everytime my friends use the term real man. It fucks with them everytime)

    Seriously though.

    Gender is complex. There is so many people. Everybody cannot fit the same definition. So man and woman can be so many things. In my opinion there isn't so much as man/woman as there is people.

    another question is "is it really just man/woman/non-binary?"
     
    #48 Burnedcloset, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  9. Pret Allez

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    Justine, I will have to think about this for a while, and I would like to tell you why I am going to have to think about this for a while.

    The question is uncomfortable, because as a person struggling with whether to transition, I feel I should have a more ready answer. And the reason it's so difficult is that there's a lot of conflict in my mind. At the outset, I want to make it clear that I will not offer (or countenance) any answer that relies on gender essentialism. Nor will biological essentialism be admitted.

    At the same time, I refuse to provide the answer that gives a certain amount of "gatekeeping" the trans community has come to expect not only here, but elsewhere. There are of course, blatant attempts to appropriate trans experience and make claims that are cheapening to the struggles we face, like being otherkin.

    However, I am equally uncomfortable with setting a bar of depression which a person has to be at in order for us to call them trans, to honor a pronoun, or to prescribe medical care. My joke about this kind of worrisome gatekeeping is "well, how many times have you committed suicide today?" We've got some people around here who are definitely trans, and you can count it in suicide attempts and involuntary commitments. For others, we can count it in suicidal attempts in the past five years, or the number of days they can't get out of bed. I'm not sure that as a community, this is how we want to count who we are or allow ourselves to count others.

    And I am not by any means suggesting that you in particular are guilty of trans gatekeeping, but I am more generally expressing my worry about how that's something the trans community in general does. So any answer I could give about what makes a man or a woman is fraught from the outset, because the atmosphere in which I attempt to answer the question is so poisoned.

    All that being said, I will try thoughtfully to answer it: a woman is a person who, having deeply considered herself, decided independent of society norms that is who she is; she is a person who can answer affirmatively the question: "if there were no restrictive gender norms, would you still feel this way?" A man, similarly, is one who can answer in the same way.

    No justifications will be provided.

    Cheefully and in sisterhood,

    Adrienne
     
  10. Kaiser

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    Beautiful answer, Adrienne!

    You also brought up something others have prodded at, that for those weighing to transition or not, these types of questions are often the ones that cause us doubt or frustration. It is ironic that we tend to have to rely on stereotypes and roles, if we want that extra edge to pass, which only adds to our dilemma. If we do not, at least in the beginning, society will see us as "a man/woman that dresses/acts as a woman/man", and we cannot always take for granted our bodies either.

    If you want to know what I believe makes a man or woman, it's really quite simple:

    A man or woman embraces who they are, and does what they need to for what matters to them. They kick Life in the teeth and tell it to fuck off, because today is not going to waste, they have something or someones to cherish.
     
  11. White Knight

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    Other than basic danggly and jiggly parts difference, at least in our society, being man confused with being honest, brave and less emotional than women.

    Being a man like (showing above qualities as a female) is highly praised and calling some woman "Manly <insert name>" considered a praise. On the other side if you lack or more importantly show you lack one of the above quality you named with manly feminine mock words and you are condemned by everyone... man, female, old or child...

    For me, I never been a follower of that. I let it real men and women concept when I joined this side and see how much those young people suffer because they feel the need to apply under one of the big titles... real man, real woman, real gay or real lesbian. Everyone in between suffers heavy sense of lost.
     
  12. Lazuri

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    I'll sum it up for you.
    [YOUTUBE]E57KyBUjIms[/YOUTUBE]
     
  13. Austin

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    Man and woman are vague terms for a forum like this.
     
  14. Lazuri

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    I just want to point out that if you drive a manual and know how to drive eco-friendly, you are way more green than just about any automatic car.
     
  15. PatrickUK

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    For me, it's as much (if not, more) about character and personality as it is about physical attributes. What you see is only part of it. There are plenty of adult males and females who are completely lacking in maturity and emotional development that you would expect of a complete man or woman.

    I know men who have more finesse than some women and women who have more strength than some men. Sometimes it's clearly evident, other times, it needs to be tapped into. You don't necessarily see it, but it's all there.

    Never judge a book by its cover.
     
  16. lily1988

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    I agree. I mean what society considers masculine and feminine.

    ---------- Post added 15th May 2015 at 06:41 AM ----------

    Oh , my point was a person's sex and gender can be different. A person can have feminine genitals and a masculine personality or identity. This person would be said to have a female sex and a male gender.
     
  17. Nick07

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    I think that this thread ilustrates why there is a lot of people confused about their gender at EC. There is no definition.

    I believe that majority of people think that gender is defined by sex. Those who are not happy with their bodies or with the way society treats them, declare that they should have been born with different sex = their gender doesn't fit their sex.
    This is not meant to be disrespectful. It is sort of my definition of gender and trans*.
     
  18. randomly me

    randomly me Guest

    And this is why non binary or genderblind folks think gender is a crazy mess or simply non existant. :lol: