I'm not your stereotypical gay

While I can understand your reasoning if we go with your logic there is no heterosexual ballets or dancers, no straight guys who like shopping, pop music, dance music.

I say f*ck the stereotypes. Why are you pushing yourself and others into boxes to label. Soon you forgot what inside the box and will only see a label... nothing more.

 

I fit some lesbian stereotypes. This doesn't make me fake or annoying, as people who are proud of their gender conformity tend to say about people who do match queer stereotypes.

---------- Post added 13th Mar 2015 at 06:53 PM ----------

^ Okay, I'm about one minute late to edit that comment. I'm sorry if I came off too harsh. Just seen too much "why am I the only NORMAL gay guy in a world of flamers" lately.

 

all I've got to say is: f*ck stereotypes.

 

Stereotypes are dangerous to take seriously, they are too simplified and neglect the complexity of humanity. We wouldn't want to live in Family Guy world, which unfortunately I feel some people do. Oh well, it's their life to live.

 

As an older gay guy who did not come out until I was about 30 something it was a shock to many of my friends as they had not idea. I was just myself and have continued to be just myself. People have to accept and judge me on who I am and how i tread others. This is more important than fitting into a sterotype. Just be yourself what ever that means for you. If people like and accept you then great. but if people do not accept you then just ignore them, they have lost out.

 

I feel like that too, but I'm not as classically masculine as you. I'm really somewhere in between masculine and feminie, but it still does make things a little difficult. I dress in a pretty fem way and I use moisturizers and lotions and ChapStick and all that jazz, but I have a deep voice and I don't have that lisp or do the thing with my hands. I like a lot of what people think of as "manly" things like camping and hiking and guns and videogames, but I also don't like getting dirty and I like shopping and a lot of other "feminine" things. I hung out with only guys too until recently when I made two friends who are girls. It can be challenging for people like us who don't fit the stereotype of what people assume gay people are like because we're less visible.

 

I'm not your typical gay guy although I do have some feminine traits which are less obvious than my masculine traits. I display likes in very masculine stuff like video games, used to watch sport, but I don't like getting dirty, mechanical work, hardware and the real manly stuff. I dress well in comparison to other guys, I kinda like shopping, in fact I honestly want nail polish at the moment. I don't mind wearing makeup, in hindsight I would actually say I'm more feminine than masculine. As I do sort of walk with a slight feminine gait, but I talk with a extremely masculine voice.

 

The thing is, in my experience--and I've been out and about for over twenty years and known hundreds, if not thousands, of gay people--most gay people aren't "your stereotypical gay."

 

Labels are only helpful in making a quick assessment (bears, twinks, leather men, queens). I the greater wide world you're going to finds gays of all stripes, types, and colors. One may even alternate between being feminine and masculine. It's all good.

Many masculine gays are exhibiting a self-loathing or internalized homophobia. It's the stereotype that keeps many men in the closet, because they're afraid of being caught out, because of some feminine trait.

We all fall on a continuum. Some more and some less masculine. Why worry about it? It's true with straight men as well. It doesn't mean a thing. I'm a bear, so I'm pretty masculine. Yet, I've got to tell you, every so often when I get a pedicure, I want to get my toenails painted red. LOL. It's never happened, but the thought's there.

 

I don't think you are being harsh at all there and I agree.

Yeah, many gay guys who don't fit into the stereotype may catch some crap about them 'not really being gay' or 'faking being straight' and ya di da, but fem hatred/shaming is a very big and very real problem among gay guys as well. I mean how many times do you see someone kicked out from a potential friendship and/or dating pool because they're masculine? Yeah...

I think what some need to realize is that, if they want to be accepted/respected because they are masc and don't fit the stereotype and are just being themselves, they need to accept and respect that some of these guys with lisps, hips swaying, and tye dye hair are just as much being themselves(ofc some obviously exaggerate, just as some men try to be super super masc just to do the opposite, but not all).

 

It did make it harder to figure things out. I wasn't able to look at depictions of gay people and say "Yes, these people are my tribe."

Prefer pubs to clubs. Can't dance. Not big on design or fashion, or most pop.

On the other hand, I do bake quite a bit.

 

We all need to be who we are - but I can't help but feel that there's a bit of hatred towards those who do follow the stereotype.

Look, I'm gay - I find shopping fun at certain times, I listen to pop/dance music, my voice is higher and I don't like spending my time talking about country music, trucks, guns, pussy and what I can do to not be feminine.

Stereotypes are there because a good chunk of people fit them, but not everyone. Again, just be yourself! But NEVER bring down someone because they do, or don't, follow the stereotype.

 

These threads tend to annoy me, but I feel that something needs to be clarified. Many people do not actually understand the meaning of the word "stereotype" and, as a result, interpret certain concepts inaccurately.

First, a stereotype is not an entity that exists within a social group. A stereotype is an idea formed in the mind of an ignorant outside party about the members of a social group. A stereotype is not something that can be formed by the members of a social group. A stereotype is not something that someone can be. A stereotype or stereotyping is the way in which an individual views specific characteristics of the members of another social group as not only being simplistic but constant.

A stereotype is not the idea that people in general have the same or similar characteristic. A stereotype is the idea that because people share a common characteristic they inherently share a common identity. It is not that these people tend to like this. It is because these people have a common interest or characteristic they are all the same.

I repeated an individual cannot be a stereotype. The very nature of a stereotype is not to highlight commonalities, rather to claim that the identity of the members of a social group does not exist outside of these specific attributes. The fact that I am an HIV negative Gay male does not mean that I am not a stereotype. It doesn't mean that those who are HIV positive are stereotypes. The existence or absence of the HIV virus is irrelevant when it comes to the stereotype placed on homosexual men. No living gay men could have the HIV virus and we would still be a stereotyped community. It not the entity of a community. It is an entity of the mind of an outsider. It is not the belief that these people are likely to have the same characteristics. It is the belief that all who share those common characteristics are the same. It is the simplification of identity not not the acknowledgment of a commonality.

Those who make statements such as "I am not like the majority of this group because I don't hold this interest or characteristic" are not denying the existence of a stereotype. They are quite literally committing the act of stereotype. They are taking the characteristic that they share with others and claiming that "although many of those who share this characteristic with me share a common identity, I exist outside of that ideal". They are calling attention to their own individuality by denying the individuality of others.

All in all, stereotyping is not merely the idea that someone believes that all people within a social group share a common characteristic. Of course, they share one or more common characteristics; that is what classifies them as a social group. Stereotyping is the belief that the existence of one characteristic is the basis for determining identity. It is no less an act of stereotyping to say that, although I share this characteristic with these people, they share a common characteristic therefore they are one type of person and I am another. If that were not the case, then no one could ever be guilty of stereotyping because we all share common characteristics. It is the identification of specific characteristic and the ways in which we tend to group together others and view ourselves as unconnected individuals as a result.

This rhetoric about being a stereotype v.s. not being a stereotype is insanely ignorant and needs to die. It is often not the fault of those who argue it, as they almost certainly acquired this idea from another uneducated party. The argument against a stereotype is not that it invalidates our ability to convince everyone that we are hidden, special snowflakes amongst a sea of white. The argument against stereotypes is that existence or lack superficial characteristics is not a valid basis to determine identity nor the similarity of one identity to another.

 

On the other hand, there will always be people who feel uncertain about whether they can fit in with LGBT people because they feel that they don't have much in common with the stereotype, which is often what the media depict all of gay people as being like.

Having threads like this reassures those people that most people do not closely resemble a stereotype, and that stereotypes are best ignored.

The definition you gave was for the verb. The first definition I found online for the noun was "a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing". Someone might resemble a stereotype for a class of people of which he or she is a member.

Do threads like this reenforce stereotypes? Probably, although we didn't need this thread to tell everyone what the stereotype looked like. As long as the stereotypes are pervasive in real life, they'll be discussed online.

 

I think most LGTB people aren't stereotypical. I have facial hair, have a deep voice, wear cargo pants and desert boots. My playlists could make a nine year old grow a beard, they're that heavy. And while I like shopping, it's generally speaking for electronics or firearms/tactical gear. I hate organized sports, but I think that's just antisocial, not stereotypical gay.

Read someplace that doing stereotypically masculine things can make you straight. Hasn't worked for me.

 

Definitions provided at the top of the Google/Bing/Etc search bars are definitions that fall in line with the engines top searches. They do not inherently fall in line with standard, widespread definitions. The definition that I provided is the definition specified by multiple published dictionaries and psychology textbooks. Which is fitting because the study psychology is where the concept of stereotyping was originally formed.

Secondly, the definition provided is written in the form of a verb; however, the noun variation of the definition would simply be a reorganization of the syntax.

Competent and socially aware individuals should be able to voice their frustrations with the presences of stereotypes without actively encouraging and enforcing the stereotyping of others. For example:

African Americans are stereotyped as uneducated, unlawful, and aggressive. I have never been arrested, have several academic awards, and will be a PhD holder in the coming years. Claiming that "I am unlike other African Americans" for those reasons is highly problematic as I am not only fortifying that stereotype that I am trying to claim is untrue, but I am also insinuating that other African Americans possess an identity and set of values that fall in line with that stereotype.

The same is true of stereotypes of shallowness, materialism, femininity, promiscuity, and various others stereotypes held about homosexual males. The same is true for all stereotypes that are imposed on LGBTQIA.

Which is precisely why I am suggesting that we speak about them in a way that it not contradictory and tragically hypocritical. To suggest that the way this subject is being addressed might be problematic, but people are frustrated and we should allow them to vent those frustrations without critique is ridiculous. If we all had such a fine grasp of the concept stereotypes and how they work, then some of us wouldn't be making such ignorant comments.

As I said in my previous post, I am not here to shame the people who made statements such as the ones I critiqued. I offered a response to show the flaw in them. In hopes that some of us will learn to discuss this topic and express certain feelings in ways convey a sense of knowledge and social awareness rather than making statements that encourage the simplification and generalization of those around us.

 

Fair point re online definitions, although that definition does come from the OED. Interesting that psychology textbooks view a stereotype as the belief that an image is accurate, rather than the stereotype being the image itself, which is certainly how I would use the word. Although this also assumes that only one of the definitions is correct, rather than both being correct.

Saying "I am unlike other African Americans" would be problematic, because it implies that the stereotype is correct. My view is that "I am unlike the African American stereotype" would be less problematic because it would be presenting counter-evidence to that stereotype and therefore would help you to show it as untrue. Although I hope that you don't actually have to point that out to people.

I think I'm not too concerned with the principle of this thread because I don't think it could induce anyone reading it to hold a stereotype as true. I admitted that the thread would reenforce the image. I do however think that if anything it would reduce the belief that the image was an accurate representation of people.

But yes, the reason I argued this point was because I thought I was having to defend myself against an accusation of being insufficiently supportive of LGBT issues.

---------- Post added 13th Mar 2015 at 11:14 PM ----------

Although I should also probably be clear that I haven't ever been the subject of a stereotype as hurtful as the one you described, so I understand if even presenting counter-evidence to a stereotype would seem to you still to be giving the stereotype too much oxygen, in a way that it doesn't so much to me.

 

I feel you man ,but my lesbian friends are femmes as wells I only have 2 right now,but I out femme them . They are the only ones that believe and know I'm a lesbian ,but other people don't believe it and it's because I'm feminine and I love make up and all that girly stuff .

 

Theoretically, definitions can change with time. The reason why I was adamant about stressing that definition was to show that it is something that is a mindset. Stereotypes are not people who hold certain characteristics. Stereotypes are how people who don't hold those characteristics generalize those who do and view them as all the same rather than individuals.

It is no more problematic for a heterosexual person to same that "I am this type of person with this distinct identity unlike the gays", then for a person within the LGBTQ community to say "Well, I'm this type of homosexual. I'm just your normal type of guy/gal. Not like those other gays". There is a difference between saying "I am an HIV negative gay male" and "I am not like the rest of the gay community. I'm not promiscuous. I'm HIV negative". Making statements such as this do not challenge stereotypes. They fortify them as the speaker is only taking the stereotype and throwing it in the face of the rest of those who are within their demographic.

I wouldn't have an issue with the specific example that you have. The problem is more with the way that it is often said. For example:

Speaker 1: "I've heard that gays are promiscuous."

Speaker 2: "I am not promiscuous unlike the stereotypical gay."

The problem with this statement is that it blatantly says, "I am the exception". You are taking a stereotype that is meant to apply to the majority and attempting to pass it onto others rather than pointing out that it is inaccurate across the board. Especially on the subject of expression in the LGBTQI community, where this seems to be the most common. There is this desire to distance oneself from those have interests or express themselves in a matter that one would view as less desirable. The underlining issue with the example about African Americans that I shared was that it was an attempt to separate myself from the rest of that demographic and paint myself as the exception rather than ague against the ignorant stereotype specifically.

I am almost positive that a thought similar to some of the ones that I critique have run through my mind in the past. My objective is not to shame people here. My intention is to get some people to start thinking about the meaning behind some of the statements that they make. If you gut reaction when being comforted with a stereotype is to convince everyone of the many ways that you are different and disassociate yourself with that demographic, rather than arguing that the stereotype itself is bullshit then there is a problem there. It is not bullshit because I am a special snowflake, but because the idea that whether the members of my demographic have this characteristic or not should define us is ridiculous and simpleminded. Otherwise, we are merely doing exactly what is being do to us.