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Writers! Come and Talk About Writing!

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Technology' started by 101DeadRoses, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. MyFlowerKing

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    I'm currently in the process of writing a novel. Let me see if I can count all of my characters that are LGBT+
    The main character's daughter is bisexual. One of the main supporting characters is a trans boy, asexual, and biromantic. There's a lesbian girl. An ace/aro girl. An adrogynous person. I have ideas to make one of the characters a trans girl. The main character is asexual, demiromantic. There's a gay couple. A queen in it is pansexual and transwoman. Her king is a demiboy. I really want to add in another adrogynous (BTW I think I keep spelling that wrong? Please tell me if I did haha) character. Among this, there's a bunch of different ethnic backgrounds and personalities. :slight_smile:
    When I first started writing, way back when (probably when I was 8) everyone was white, cis, and straight, I think. It's common in works today, too. This is my first serious writing project, and I want to make the characters as diverse as possible. I'm quite happy with the result of so many LGBT+ characters! Sure, there are some straight, cis people, but the variety outweighs them. :slight_smile:
     
  2. Jellal

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    On principle I tend to not make sex a thing I write about unless the plot demands it. I have to take a step back and be like, 'wait, I just wrote that because I was horny. It's actually shit now that i look at it.' Could be that romance isn't my strong suit ... so generally my stuff has been shaping up to be the Grand Asexual Journey, lol. I'll see it how it turns out by the end though.

    Anyway I have a question for all y'all here on the writing thread!

    Tell me your opinion on characters that speak in the third person, like Dobby did in the Harry Potter books. Like this: "Dobby finds it difficult to explain, sir. Dobby wonders where to begin." Does it irritate you when a character does this? Is it to cumbersome to read, and do you find it confusing? Would it send you over the edge for a character to keep doing this in every damn scene? ... Or do you actually not mind it all that much? I'm curious.
     
  3. Kaiser

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    I'm similar in Benway's thinking, when it comes to villains.

    It's fine to have a totally unsympathetic villain, they do exist. It's fine to have a villain you have a hard time disliking, they do exist. It's fine to have a villain believe in their cause, no matter how extreme they take it, they do exist.

    But many writers have a hard time making you appreciate the character, while simultaneously detesting their actions.

    One immediate example of a villain that, while you hate their guts, you understand why they're taking an extremely maddening and selfish approach, is Captain Rhodes from Day of the Dead.

    Nothing about that man is redeemable. He's a psychopath, power-hungry, insensitive, a bully, and not somebody you like. But because he is so good at being like that, he mesmerizes and demands attention, making you want to see him do the very things you hate him for, because he is convinced it's his way and no other way. You're drawn in, not because of their actions, but how they sell those actions.
     
  4. Lazuri

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    You say that like it's shameful to be white, cis and straight. Honestly, when stories include characters who are LGBTQ+ simply for the sake of being LGBTQ+, I get annoyed. You can't cater to everybody and in trying to do so you make your character roster look like a checklist.

    Just to be clear here, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to offer some constructive criticism.
     
  5. starlights

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    I looked to see if there was a writing subforum or a place where people could post their stories or poems and get feedback, but I didn't see anything. I'd love to read stuff written by people here.
     
  6. Lyana

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    Re: diversity. I'm all for diversity in fiction, but there's probably such a thing as going too far. I know most people I meet are white, straight, and cis-gender, and there's nothing wrong with being white, straight, and cis-gender or having white, straight and cis-gender characters. I often incorporate characters who aren't, but a book where almost every character was a special snowflake would probably grate on my nerves if it wasn't pulled off with humor.

    I don't mind if it's one character, or a group of characters, if there's a reason for it. When it was house-elves in Harry Potter, it seemed to make sense to me.
    Even if it was everyone all the time, I wouldn't find it confusing or irritating, it would just be jarring to me because people don't talk like that in real life, so I wouldn't find it very believable.
     
  7. RainDreamer

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    Not really, as long as it says something about the characters. In the Dobby case, third person use shows that his abused relationship with his masters. In feudal time when slavery is practiced, slaves refer to themselves in third person to show humility toward their masters. Saying "I" meaning asserting themselves as a person, but to their master, they are livestock or tools, and that is also how society consider them then. So they speak in third person, to avoid being considered defiant and have to suffer punishment.

    There are many other cases that third person self-reference is justified too, like when characters suffer trauma and their mind try to disassociate from themselves to distance away from that trauma as far as possible - happens in real life. In some cultures and societies, self-reference in third person shows respect to the one they are speaking to (similar to the slave in a way, but has more nuances and voluntary).

    Some time characterization require you of doing such thing, such as making an extremely annoying character, as you said. Or those who are so narcissistic that they use third person to inflate their ego. Or "barbaric" characters, showing a kind of mental deficiency/lack of civilization. And so much more, but I have to stop here before it is too long.

    In the end, third person self-referential, or "Illeism" formally, is just another tool in the writer's arsenal. How you use it is what matters.

    It can't also be helped if the readers doesn't get why you use it and start feeling annoyed. Not much you can do there.
     
    #87 RainDreamer, Apr 10, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  8. 101DeadRoses

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    Hello again. I'm FINALLY back with those character generation techniques. Hopefully, these will help.

    Be warned, they're LONG:

    Character Generation Techniques


    #1) Sit down with a notebook and the biggest pack of crayons that you can possibly get. You can even get more than one pack if you want even more variety. Then, imagine each crayon as the color of someone's hair. Write what you think they would be like, what flaws and virtues they would possess, what and who they might like, etc.
    You can also use this method slightly differently and imagine the crayons as the color of some character's eyes.

    #2) This is a little similar to #1, as they both use association, but it's slightly different.
    Get as many pictures of as many different types of flowers as you can, then go through them one by one, and think of who you believe might like each, what they are like, etc. Also, think of types of people who could resemble each flower and possibly the symbolism of each.
    This technique doesn't have to strictly be with flowers. Get houses, dogs, cats, trees, signposts, whatever you can think of. Don't be afraid to get crazy. Just think of the people who might like, have a resemblance to or some significant connection with each object.

    #3) Mix and match virtues, flaws, habits and interests of people you know. Take any and all positive traits of someone you dislike, and combine them with any and all negative traits of someone you do like, have a character like the same TV shows as your best friend, but tap their foot like your mother when she's nervous instead of chewing on their nail like they normally would, or do the opposites of each. Pick and choose certain traits to mix up with each other.
    You can also mix real-life people up in a different way.
    For example, you could write a character a lot like your father, make him a woman who looks like the waitress in the diner down the street from you, have them like the same music as the janitor in your office building, but hold themselves and walk like your mother.

    #4) Pick a name at random. I recommend going to a website with a list of names, such as a site dealing with censuses. There, you can sort between male and female, popular and rare, and get a massive archive of names to use.
    Pick a name, any name that stimulates your brain, and envision the person you would imagine it belonging to, their traits, etc.

    #5) People watch in a place with big crowds. Pick someone who stands out to you, whether they're loud and social, and immediately grab your attention, or a quiet, shy, but interesting-seeming person, and write about who you think they are.

    #6) Adjust characters from other books, video games etc. Pick a character that you feel strongly about, and who stimulates your brain, but who isn't really that developed, and develop them fully.
    What secrets do you think they would have, who would they like in terms of romance, what games, TV shows, movies or books would they like? Who do you think they really are under the face they present to the world, and what is that face? Change their names, faces, traits and, in general, make them yours, but you can keep that same essence.
    For example, I have several characters based on those in CoD 4, but the one I'll tell you about the most is the one based on SSgt. Griggs, one of the marines. They're both very similar to each other in looks and personality, but my character has cornrows, big, sad golden eyes, is sweeter and has a very dark past. He also is more developed than pretty much any character in CoD, judging from what I've seen, as are all the rest of my characters based off in-game characters (a fact I take pride in). And just a disclaimer; I don't really know just how much work went into all of them, but it seems like most of the characters in CoD 4 are just rough sketches, and I pretty much know EVERYTHING about my characters, from their sexual kinks and dark secrets to what sorts of underwear and jewelry they like, so I assume that mine are much more developed. I even know their thought and speech patterns even when they're just words on a page, so... yeah.

    #7) Think about the story you need characters for. What needs done within the story? What sort of person would do it? What sort of person would fit the story and help the protagonists along and who would mess up their grand plans? What sort of person would take the story in unexpected directions and add length and depth to the story?
    Here's an example: I have a story in the making, not necessarily being plotted and worked on yet, but definitely an idea. It's about a con-man who has a history with the Captain of a SAS squad. They're in the middle of a chaotic country of some kind, being torn apart by gangs, terror groups or even zombies, possibly all three. The con-man is cold, selfish, and cruel, with many enemies even within his own family. He has a tendency to take advantage of people for his own gain, and alienates pretty much anyone he talks to. The Captain of the SAS squad very definitely hates the con-man, but the circumstances force the squad and the con-man together.
    While I know that the con-man is cold, cruel and selfish, and that he alienates everyone he talks to, I can't just say that. I have to show it. If I just say that he is something without providing proof and examples, the audience is likely going to be a little confused and the character might even seem flat. Without relationships to many characters, they can't really know HOW cruel that con-man is and HOW MUCH he alienates people.
    So, instead of just having the con-man and the SAS squad, I added in two more characters; the con-man's brother and his accomplice.
    The con-man's accomplice is mean, blinded by money and opportunity and follows the con-man willingly, and illustrates just how much power the con-man exerts, and how good he is at lying.
    The con-man's little brother, on the other hand, has lived his whole life in the oppressive, painful shadow of his big brother, being constantly called an "art fag" for his kind, shy, artistic and creative personality (that just turns to grumpy silence when he's near his brother), being constantly conned into doing legwork for his brother, and who truly hates the con-man. He too was roped into a grouping with his brother due to the circumstances, as they all need more people to watch each other's backs.

    So there you go. Hope this will help you guys to get some interesting, fun characters right off the bat, and there are the character development sheets on page three, as well as the questionnaire, if you need or want to develop them further.
     
  9. ApexxShadow

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    Currently working on a book with my friend that's a mix between Divergent and The Hunger games, with a little Maze Runner mixed in. I'm also working on an LGBTQIA+ novel :slight_smile:
     
  10. Hyliana

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    I'm currently writing a script for a short film and an animated series, do those count?
     
  11. Argentwing

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    Lol, that is the genesis of probably 60% of my ideas. It's then up to my sober self to cut the crap and see if there's anything worthwhile left over.
     
  12. RainDreamer

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    I am not even a writer and I am here. :grin:
    I just like to put words together till they sound nice in my head.

    ---------- Post added 10th Apr 2015 at 10:25 PM ----------

    If you are writing erotica, being horny about what you write can be a good thing. :wink:
     
  13. Jellal

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    Another question, this one directed at writers specifically:

    When you're pacing out the beginning of a story, how quickly do you try to alert the audience to the main direction that the plot's going to take? Do you have a rule for how quickly you want to set up the conflict/motivation that gets the whole story moving?
     
  14. 101DeadRoses

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    I normally want there to be a little bit of time to show the characters' normal lives and introduce the characters as well. This is normally about a day, more or less.
    However, there are hints to the eventual direction even within the first paragraph in my current book. The lead character has a nightmare about being chased by some stinking monstrosity, with the smell of exposed bone chasing the lead character, and when it catches her it raises "a clawed hand" to finish her off. Later on, it is revealed that a very contagious, highly severe flu/virus is the cause of the zombie apocalypse.

    ---------- Post added 13th Apr 2015 at 08:38 PM ----------

    Yep. They're stories, so they count.
     
  15. WolfyFluff

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    I outline and make a lot of of plot summaries, and my characters take awhile to make. I just do a lot of planning but when it comes to actually writing, I never actually write. I'm usually trying to make a beginning and that never works. Someone told me I shouldn't start at the neginning anyway, and I need to do that.

    I've never written things before other than essays and papers for high school. I have taken interest in creative writing but I'm hardly confident I could do it.
     
  16. RainDreamer

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    Depending on the pace I want to have. And the pace is also dependent on the story. Some story require a little buffer time for exposition/world building/character building before the main plot can take meaning, and some can just wing it on the go, stretching the world as it advance and let the character grow along with it.

    As a rule, how quickly I put things in motion is dependent on the length of the story. If I write a short story, I usually drop the reader into the thick of the plot, let everything sort out loosely as I go, as it is more acceptable for a short story to do that. While if I write anything longer, I like to build some sort of rapport between the characters and the reader a bit, which let the reader understand better why my characters take the course of actions they will take in resolving the conflict I set up later on.

    ---------- Post added 13th Apr 2015 at 08:58 PM ----------

    It doesn't matter where you start writing, it matters whether you start writing at all. Have your plot summary laid out, write the easiest scene possible from that, whether that is from the beginning, middle, or ending. It will start from there. Facing a blank page is extremely daunting, so put some words on it and it will feel easier.

    You are already creatively writing as you write these forum posts, telling story of your own life in your own words and ideas. Anyone can do it. The thing that separates writers from other people is that the writers take the plunge and begin to start writing instead of wondering whether they can write or not.
     
  17. Fallingdown7

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    It depends on the story, the plot, and the length.

    As for how I did mine? I started with a short prologue that gave readers an idea of what the main plot was about, but I avoided going in depth about it. After that, the first chapter I did was about the two main characters going about their day to day life with some subtle hints of events happening outside. There were minor action scenes to keep the reader interested but nothing developing the conflict about the main idea of the story in the first chapter.

    Keep in mind that my story is also a very long story, and longer stories need to be paced better. Revealing too much too soon can sometimes be a huge mistake. It confuses the readers and makes it harder to pace out character development. This is especially true for my story (which is a war/adventure story); if I started with everyone fighting each other and revealing how and why everything was set up, I would lose a lot of early development and it would be harder for the readers to care about my characters.

    However, a lot of one shot stories work well with major conflict right off the bat.
     
  18. Jellal

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    Thanks to all who responded!

    I asked because I have proudly been putting my fingers to the keyboard lately in trying to get my damn story written instead of just plotting and character creation. And while I have a bare bones idea of how the plot would go overall (sad backstory -> protag. gets friend -> many challenges are faced) I had no specifics about the best way to begin it. The meat of the plot, and really what the story is "about," are those challenges ... but without the context of what it really means for my protagonist to undertake those challenges, and what's really at stake, it felt like there was stuff I needed to lay the ground for FIRST.

    So I have ended up taking a couple chapters just for setting things up. I'm most concerned with setting it up successfully enough that readers are interested, and won't just jump ship without getting to the good stuff and then really wanting to stay along for the ride.

    Considering that I'm making a fantasy world from the ground up, it's been tricky to decide, as you put it Fallingdown, where giving too much away at once would be a mistake. Ultimately I think I'm going to stay cautious and only provide details that are important for understanding characters in the beginning ... inevitably there are going to be a lot of questions readers will have in terms of wanting things explained, but I'd like to hope that'd make them look forwards to reading more rather than getting pissed off for being in the dark...:tears:
     
  19. Kaiser

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    Like others have said, it depends.

    One thing you have to keep in mind is, aside from the back of your book that will contain a summary, the first 1-3 pages are absolutely essential in "hooking" the reader. Otherwise, no matter how pretty the book looks, readers will put it aside and move onto something else... well, unless you have the media behind you, then folks will pick up anything, good or bad, just because everyone is raving about it.

    But the point is, you have to be interesting enough to captivate the reader, but also vague enough, at least in the earlier portions, to interest the reader into continuing as well. If you can obtain a reader's interest AND curiosity -- you're set, because you will earn their investment.

    Each of my stories, the first few pages differ, since each story is different enough:

    For this one, I opened up in war-torn Berlin. Through the occupying Soviet soldiers, I give a brief overview that World War II, at least in Europe, is practically done, and what they intend to do after this war. Eventually, orders come down to resume the offensive against the other Allies.

    I then have a radio broadcast explain, that the Soviet Union has attacked the Allies in western Germany and beyond, which leads into the rest of the story.

    Short enough to where anybody can be briefed, but informative enough to where they can decide, if this is something that would appeal to them.

    This one opens up with the father, the king, having a conversation with his daughter, the middle child, about the situation. This allows me to, in a page or two, to give an overview of everything, as well as to situate the main cast into the reader's mind.

    Also, the 'looming war', between the siblings to earn their father's approval, adds to the interest.

    This one begins with the murder (via dreams) of a certain technological CEO, whose murder was witnessed through a live stream. The teenage cast is introduced to the reader through this, by their reactions to the stream. This allows me, relatively quickly, to give the reader an idea of character traits and whatnot. It also draws them in, with something so violent happening.

    This is done through a variety of mediums. Journals, text messages, video cameras, and character interactions. It begins with the journal entry of one kid, determined to shoot up his school, a semi-vague reason as to his motives, and a few other characters. By establishing the antagonist early, the reader will be curious to see what happens to everybody else, when they meet him.

    This begins with Satan and God having a conversation, about whether or not anybody can do a better job than God. Satan claims he can, as he has found a means to imprison God -- he just can't seem to destroy God. It's simple enough, but considering who the two individuals are, it's more than enough to draw folks in.
     
  20. 101DeadRoses

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    You should be more confident about it. Even if it's not very good at first, YOU CAN DO IT. A bit at a time, a set number of words, paragraphs or pages a day, as long as it's PROGRESS.

    I am fourteen years old. I am a cis-girl, otherwise unlabeled goth who has access to pretty much zero real writing courses, tutors, or classes of any kind.
    But I am on Chapter SEVENTEEN of my book, and I have written eighty-one double-sided pages. I have been writing for almost a year, and I have to say, even seeing this as the creator, it's pretty GOOD. This is not to even measure the very positive reactions of all those who have seen the first draft.
    Everyday, I doubt whether or not what I'm writing is good, whether I can see it through or not, and whether I can even write the next sentence as it should be or not, and everyday I manage to do all of those and more.
    You can do this. If I can do it, you can do it. In fact, I will help you in any way I can.

    Provided you want my help, that is.