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Sudden Envy

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by AlexTheGrey, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. AlexTheGrey

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    I think I just need to vent a little bit, but I have been going a little nuts over the last couple of days. I have obviously been at least in the questioning phase of my identity for a while now, and I suddenly find myself more afraid than I have been this entire time.

    I've been at odds with thoughts of "why couldn't I have been born as the other sex" every so often for a while now, but never really having issues with my body in the sense of hate or dysphoria around my sexual organs. It's just been this sort of minor nag in the back of my head, mild depression that might last a day or two, and then leave me alone for months, a year, or even more. I would at times be envious of fictional characters that could switch their sex at will, though.

    Last night however, I got a bit more curious about folks who were sharing their transitioning timelines and how things changed for them on hormones, including a photo record. I wound up with a really strong sense of envy for what these people have accomplished that it mentally knocked me back. And now I'm afraid.

    Afraid that I might be more transgender than I was willing to admit. Afraid that I might not be transgender and getting envious over something that's not me. Afraid of what it would mean for my relationship. Afraid for how my family, coworkers, and friends would react to it if I was.

    My emotions don't take me by surprise that often, so I get shaken up when they do...
     
  2. jay777

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    I'd say calm down...

    and go with a feeling of joy... what you feel would bring you joy...

    and maybe don't be afraid so much...


    hugs
     
  3. Jellal

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    Sorry if this sounds a bit grim, but this has helped me sort out some of my thoughts, so:

    Think about what you'd like people to remember you as after your death. I didn't want to go to the grave as a boy. I wanted to be remembered as a girl. Putting things in the context of finality usually helps me cut to the chase about what I really want.
     
  4. Polka Dots

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    Hi AlexTheGrey. Honestly, I could've written this:

    I understand all those fears. It's taken me decades to refer to myself as transgender, despite all the signs my heart had offered me throughout the years. For a while I believed I could hide from the identity if I ignored my dysphora, but when I do that, my pain is worse.

    How do you feel when you see yourself in photos? When you hear your voice? When people use pronouns assigned to your birth gender? When I'm addressed using male pronouns my heart does flips; when addressed using female pronouns, I find myself correcting people in my mind because I know they are wrong.

    I think Jellal brings up an important point. If you ever need someone to vent to, please know my wall is open.
     
  5. Michael

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    Same here. You wouldn't believe what a difference to your life will your answer make.

    It's a great question, it's about much more than your gender issues.
     
  6. AlexTheGrey

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    I've been meaning to respond to this thread for a pretty long time, but I keep getting distracted. Work has been busy as all hell as we get close to a big deadline, and I've had responsibility dropped in my lap, so I haven't really had much time to really do much more than lurk and make a few short responses in less serious threads.

    And I guess I was hoping to get a bit of time to actually mull over the various ponts you folks have brought up. They are very good questions to be asking myself, and unfortunately, I don't think I've made a ton of progress here. Not by myself. In some ways, I feel like I just need to say what is on my mind when I read your responses, and not so much try to analyze it myself.

    I kinda want to addres Jellal's point first, because it is probably the most unhelpful in my case, but still a very important and interesting question. Honestly, for me, how someone views me seems less important after I'm dead. It enters the realm of "not my problem anymore", and if they wanted to refer to me as "Mr Flibble" or "Lamb Chop", it doesn't really bother me. However, when trying to form any answer, I did find myself always prefacing it with "Someone who..." I'd rather that I be remembered for what I did, and what/whom I leave behind. But I also find that I tend to use gender-neutral pronouns out of habit, even if I know the gender of the person in question. That it applied when referring to myself was... curious.

    When it comes to photos, I have a handful, but I don't really look at them much. Mostly when I'm nostalgic and miss the other folks in the photo. Ex-classmates and the like. Never really liked seeing myself, but neither does my mother like seeing herself. It got slightly better for a period of time when I was getting a bit more shapely due to heavy exercise in high school, but I think that's about the only time post-puberty that I liked something about my body. It was a bit weird that I remember being happier about not having a flat chest, than I was about "rocking the pecs", even though it was kinda the same thing. Same with my voice. Although I did like my soprano singing voice, I got a lot more shy about it when it started cracking and lowering. It basically ended my interest in singing in groups. I find with practice, I can still hit notes in my new range, but I hate doing it unless I'm singing along with something alone now. And I still very much prefer to sing along with something in my old range, which is a bit harder, but doable if I'm not trying to be loud with it.

    The pronouns one is a lot harder to talk about, honestly. I don't actually get called by name very often, or even by pronouns. During the day, I tend to get called "hey" more often than anything else. "Hey, time for lunch?" or "Hey, about that TPS report." My name though, that's maybe something worth talking about. My birth name is as biblical as it gets, and as a result, very male. I do remember when I was younger, being proud of the name. More from what it represented in terms of importance than anything else. I didn't go around speaking it, but I liked the meaning of it. These days, much less so. I'll tell someone what it is, but that's about it. Whether it is because I've grown very atheist since I was a young kid or not, I'm not sure. But the pride in it simply isn't there. It is a unique identifier now, and not really anything more. It doesn't really represent my idea of myself on its own. Never liked my middle name at all since I didn't really feel Irish, so that's not a great comparison.

    But for me, there is definitely a lack of comfort around expectations of me because of my biological sex. That has definitely always been there. Grating at everything from being told that I'm handsome, to how sexy my hairy legs are to women (being called cute is embarassing, but not as embarassing as handsome). And grating at what would be gender expectations as well. That I should be doing the manly chores around the house, or that I should dress up more in nice masculine outfits, and the surprise that I didn't suck at cooking when it was used as a punishment.

    In my current relationship, there has been a lot of oddities around gender as well. There's been the offhand questions from time to time to her where I just feel compelled to ask what she would do if I were to wake up as a woman one day. The jokes around "being the woman" in the relationship at times, which are a different sort of problem, but I seem to have less problem with the idea of people calling me "the woman" in the relationship than "the man". But perhaps that simply ties more into how I don't like the idea of "the man" in a relationship as it is stereotypically portrayed. I'm not entirely sure.

    But on some level, I do worry that I've just internalized some things from my mother around masculinity (even if it is somewhat conflicting with other things she did). She wasn't just rightously angry at the patriarchy, but she sees masculinity as something to be devalued. Something to be lesser than femininity, and that the patriarchy should instead be a matriarchy which would solve the world's problems.

    So I wonder if my bouts of depression while questioning myself why I couldn't have been born female is tied up in that. But if I've simply internalized all this, I wonder why when I think about what it would be like to have been born biologically female, I can't help but think I'd want to be a "tomboy" and would totally own that label as me? To pass as female, but still have a somewhat masculine expression of dress is something I do tend to envy (see, my avatar). Or find attractive. It's sometimes hard to separate the two, making things even more confusing. Blah.

    I know this doesn't count as a revelation or breakthrough, but I think I needed to just type this out and tell myself "people (may) see this. This is what I want people to understand about me."
     
  7. RainDreamer

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    Came to the same question not long ago. It was one of the things that kept me from killing myself at times. When life treat me like crap and I feel powerless in changing my life, thinking of taking one final act of defiance against it, I sometimes realize that I would just be playing right into its hand, and I would die and remembered as someone who I am not. So I preserve and fight on silently until one day I can tell life to piss off because haha, I am a girl now. One day...

    But anyway, back to the topic, I know that feeling of envy. Know it so very well, in fact, since it crop up very often in my daily life. Sometimes I just sit there and a girl walk by and I just thought "damn it, why wasn't I born like her?". It some what helps camouflage me, since I am not out and guys just thought I am one of them, checking girls out for sexual reason instead of wanting to be a girl.
     
  8. Polka Dots

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    In the past I've asked very similar questions. I also remember offering support, saying things like "If you told me you were [opposite of birth gender], my love would not change." While I meant every word, looking back I realize I was hoping the one I love would reciprocate and tell me the same.

    I agree that it can be difficult to separate attraction from envy. Some people think that MtF individuals need to be "super feminine" and FtMs have to be "hyper-masculine" but that is simply untrue. (I'm not suggesting you think this way --- this is meant as a general comment.)

    Personally, I'm glad you replied and I was happy to learn more about you. I'm sorry I don't have more advice to offer you since I'm just starting my own journey, though.
     
  9. AlexTheGrey

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    Yeah, even when I asked it, I knew what I was hoping to get. And I do remember the answer always was "I don't know."

    I can point to different characters/celebrities and say something like "I'd want to be her" or "I'd want to be with her" or "I like/respect/admire her style." Which I suppose helps me separate things a bit. But there's enough overlap sometimes that it can be tough.

    I do find it a little amusing that some of the characters that fall into that first group dress more masculinely that I ever want to. Last time I wore a suit, I wanted to claw it off of me as soon as possible, but since I was doing it to support friends at their wedding, I couldn't.

    Less amusing is the couple of times where my partner has assumed a poster or art piece I picked up was because of the second category, and admit that I creeped her out with it. Because male gaze.
     
  10. AlexTheGrey

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    Well, I could start a new thread, but I could just use this one. I still kinda have a need to vent, but also follow up a bit on my "journey".

    I still haven't forgotten Jellal's question, and honestly, I do have an answer, but I'm not confident it actually sheds light on this like was intended. What I leave behind is what I think about. Are my (future) children taken care of? Are they doing well? Do the people around me know they are loved? Did I leave the right mark on the people I work, play and live with? What my body looks like, how I present, and what makes me happy is for my benefit. Not theirs. And it stops benefiting me once I am no longer there to benefit from it.

    But, things have been... weird, for the lack of a better word. This "minor nag" hasn't really gone away since I first started this thread (egad, did I really start it nearly 3 months ago?). Neither has really the fear either. I can honestly say the idea that maybe I am female still scares me. Not from the idea of it being true, but the consequences. The risk of losing friends, family, and even my partner. A part of me just wants to be normal and not bothered by any of this. But even when I thought I was normal, these thoughts would crop up occasionally, and depress me. Probably doesn't help that I kept finding myself attracted to comics and stories with gender bending, which in a way was an outlet, and a reminder.

    But, I would say this week is also oddly calming. I'm trying to focus more on what I can do to actually figure out an answer to where I fall. This week was the first time I seriously considered crossdressing. And honestly, my experience was different than I expected. It wasn't one of aversion, guilt, anxiousness, etc. Instead, I was curious, and the idea made me smile a little inside (slightly). A year ago, if you suggested that to me, I'd be very doubtful and reject the idea out of hand without even thinking about it.

    In fairness though, it isn't like I'd be going all out with a dress. The idea of a dress is about as unpleasant to me as the idea of a suit and tie. Naoto is also my avatar for a reason. When I think of myself as a woman, "tomboy" is the word that comes to mind. But there are certainly ways to look the part without being masculine. And I'm starting to get tempted by the idea of doing it at home when I don't have to be in public. Dip a toe, and see what happens.

    Will I just whip up some anxiousness and wind up not actually trying these things anytime soon? Maybe. I need to work on that part a bit too.
     
  11. Nick07

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    Alex, I think that it is not important who you are (trans or cis), but what you need to do to feel happy or happier than you are feeling now. Don't let any label limit you.
     
  12. GenderConfused

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    I feel the same way, maybe rather than going through a drastic change or ignoring, you could just experiment wearing mens or womens clothing and trying out different gendered behaviours to see how it feels before deciding anything... That way you dont have to come out and make a big change if youre not and youre free of that stress, and if you decide thats what makes you happy, you can decide from there and maybe start to tell people? Youre not alone though.. :slight_smile:
     
  13. AlexTheGrey

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    Thanks. It's not so much the label at this point, but I am using it to convey an idea. It's complicated, but it's a bunch of things. It's sorting out what is denial and what isn't. It's reconciling this idea that I wanted to/should have been born the opposite sex, with a parent who actively belittled my birth sex. And piling on top of that a heaping spoonful of anxiety telling me to just not rock the boat, put up with it, follow the gender rules, and it won't get worse.

    Honestly, I really should see a therapist about this. I could use the help untangling it, I think.

    That's kinda where I'm at now: "And I'm starting to get tempted by the idea of [crossdressing] at home when I don't have to be in public. Dip a toe, and see what happens."