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LGBT News There is no feminist use of the word "faggot"

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Pret Allez, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. Pret Allez

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    Azealia Banks thinks there's a feminist use of the word "faggot."

    She's mistaken.

    She thinks that being bisexual gives her a pass or a license to use this word.

    She's still mistaken.

    While under some circumstances there is a criticism to be made about some gay and bisexual men, that criticism must be made factually, plainly, and with compassion. It is not to be made by using a word that demeans and incites violence against gay and bisexual men.

    While she's a pop culture icon I don't know, and I'm sure she's intelligent on issues of import, she has not exactly acquitted herself well in this instance.

    ~ Adrienne
     
  2. Hiems

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    I feel like the homophobic connotations of that word are so strong, that no matter what context you use it in - unless you're gay/bi, you're reclaiming that word, and everyone else you use it around is fine with its use - it promotes the idea that being gay/bi is wrong.

    That word is shouted at students perceived as gay by their peers, is inscribed on students' lockers, and is yelled at them before they are attacked or even killed.

    You're right. If she wants to criticize gay/bi men for talking trash about women, then do it in a way that does not promote violence and hate.

    A lot of people grow up hearing that slur used offhandedly, and so they pick it up too, yet they have no idea what message is sent by using it ad nauseum.
     
  3. Phalange

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    I don't think fighting hate with hate is the way to go.

    How does she expect to change misogynistic gay men's* attitudes by calling them 'faggots'? She might grab attention, but would anyone actually listen to what she has to say?

    If I were a lesbian misandrist, and someone called me a dyke because of that, would it make me willing to listen to them? No. I would feel attacked, which would make me defensive.

    *I'm in no way saying that most gay men are misogynists.
     
  4. skiff

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    Hi,

    "Pop culture icon"... You get that title by appealing to the herd. If the herd are biggots you conform. It is a closet all its own.

    I consider faggot the worst thing to call anybody. Some gays just use it casually.

    I work with straight guys. They poke warm hearted fun at each other with "gay" jokes. Double entrada... (Maybe nervous homoerotic)
     
  5. HornPF

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    It depends on the context. There are many meanings to the word faggot or fag or fagg - only one of them refers to a homosexual. So substitute its meaning next time you hear it. Laugh it off.

    "Get me a faggot". "Save me a fag"

    There's nowt wrong here. Both are perfectly good sentences referring to objects. I and many generations before me have used both the words faggot and fag in this context.
     
  6. skiff

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    Originally a bundle of sticks for burning. Also used for cigarettes.

    Did they burn homosexuals at one time?

    These are more UK terms. In the US the term is strictly gay derogatory.
     
    #6 skiff, Feb 11, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  7. Nekoko

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    And here I thought South Park already changed the meaning to be "someone who obnoxiously rides a Harley Davidson" :lol:

    My favorite bit was her claiming "I'm not homophobic! I'm bisexual!" Cause hey, that makes everything okay! It's a free pass to spew hate amiright? You don't have to be homophobic to be ignorant! ;D :dry:
     
  8. SomeLeviathan

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    I'm not going to take the time to do this but anyone who thinks that they can use whatever slur they want in such a context that it removes the hateful connotations of that slur need to research the later Ludwig Wittgenstein's work on language games.
     
  9. Pret Allez

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    Hi, sweetie! :3

    I understand that you're trying to remind us of the importance of context. However, there are at least two problems with your argument.

    1: Azealia is not using the word that way. She's using the word to refer to gay and bisexual men, and she's using it to refer to them in a negative way, by way of criticizing the way some of them behave towards women. As a matter of attribution, this is clearly a homophobic usage.

    2. In any case, "faggot as bundle of sticks" is an archaic usage. In fact, it only comes up in arguments about whether and when "faggot" is a homophobic word to use. The other usage, "faggot as cigarette," is a regionally specific usage. While people may say they "suck a fag" in the UK with some frequency, it's quite rare to hear in North American English, or at least United States English. In these cases, "faggot" is not being used in a homophobic way, but it's not being used in a feminist way either.

    The core point of my thread isn't that every use of the word "faggot" is homophobic. Rather, it's that there is no feminist use of the word "faggot" at all. Even the utterance "faggot is a harmful word that shouldn't be used in most cases," likely to be made by a feminist, is not a feminist usage of the word. Rather, it's a descriptive usage about the word "faggot" itself.

    What Azealia has done here is to try and claim a word that has preceded intense violence against gay and bisexual men, direct it yet again in a negative way at the very same people, and claim that usage is "feminist." It's not. It's idiotic and facile.

    And again, I'm sure Azealia has something very important to say about other issues and is very intelligent overall. But really she does need to eat some crow for this remark.

    ~ Adrienne
     
  10. tulipinacup

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    As much as I think she has a lot to offer(and she has proven that on her latest album) and her very valid points when it comes to racial issues, she still needs to enlighten herself and stop the constant homophobic slurs.
     
  11. Batman

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    Disclaimer: my following words are, in no way at all, trying to say her use is correct, or that it's okay to call people faggots, or defending her in any way. oKAY? good.

    Alright. As a youngster, who spends six hours a day, five days a week with other hip youngsters, I can tell you right now that rarely do kids use slurs correctly. Hell, just think of how many times you've seen a comment saying that a video is gay. I'm not saying its okay, just that it's a very common occurrence, and that it's not terrible if she uses it that way. Definitions really are taught, and if her mother used it that way as she was growing up, I can understand how it would be hard to get rid of those personal connotations with the word.

    That aside, it's total bullshit that she's saying "faggot" is a feminist word, or that it isn't offensive to homosexuals. Complete bullshit.

    tldr: don't fucking call people faggots
     
  12. TENNYSON

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    Maybe I'm not understanding this totally, but this reminds me of something I read on another site. The guy was trying to argue that because he had had so many bad experiences with black guys that he basically deserved to call them "n*****s". He said "not all black guys are N, but these guys are!". That's sort of what it sounds like here, that if gay guys act badly toward women, then they deserve to be called "faggots", which sounds ridiculous to me.

    It's almost like some people trying to claim that there's a difference between "gay guys" and "faggots", i.e. that "gay guys" are just normal hard-working straight-acting homosexuals and "faggots" are the flaming in-your-face femme guys.
     
  13. ANewDawn

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    I find this completely unsurprising from an infamous racist.
     
  14. JayWalker

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    Faggot-is an offensive slang term for a gay man. Though it originally (and more harmlessly) meant "a bundle of sticks," the word faggot should be used very carefully or avoided completely.

    You can't just take an offensive word and make your own definition for it. You're hurting people just by being out of the times and by being stupid with your word choice. Being bi doesn't give you a special license to use this word, nor would being gay or straight. You just aren't supposed to use it, period.
     
  15. CyberScream

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    Man, the only time I hear the word "faggot" is when somebody is camping in online games. :dry: It feels like there is so many definitions for this insulting little word. Just like the word gay. I hear it being used to describe shit that is "stupid". When the hell did this happen.
     
  16. antibinary

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    Allez is right.
     
  17. Images and Words

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    The word makes me sick, when used in that term. I have stopped my friends from using it, and I promise that I will violently expel their organs from their bodies if they use it when around me. This should have been a hint of "hey, i'm gay" but, apparently it wasn't