[curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argument?

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

"Being gay isn't a mistake."

In terms of transgenderism (and assuming belief that a perfect God has intentionally bestowed it on a select few) I'd have to say he creates people that way as another kind of trial, for the trans people themselves and the ones they interact with. Basically, everyone is given methods to grow, and trans* identity is one among countless others.

But saying you don't believe in God is actually a viable answer too. Science has not yet made room for God in empirical discovery*, but it has for probability. In the billions of humans who have lived, there is a non-negligible likelihood that some of them will not be quite like most others as a result of genetic diversity. So really, a roundabout way of saying that however a person identifies is "not a mistake."

*Not that they should or will with any decent odds, but I won't completely rule it out.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

God's plan was for me to transition so they're right, God doesn't make mistakes. I'm doing what he wants me to do, what I was born to do.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't have the need of destroying his own creation over and over throughout the bible

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

I'm not trans....but I'm physically disabled so I feel I can relate to an extent to the trans community. No God doesn't make mistakes. I was born the way I am for a reason, though that reason is one only God knows. I guess to me I view transgender people as somebody with a disability. Their body is one way but their mind says different. If I could fix my body so I could walk, I would definitely consider it. So if a transgender can fix their gender....I say go for it!

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

This!! God has a plan for each us, to be who we are meant to be.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

Exactly and his plan always has a way of turning out. I feel that LGBTQ+ was placed on Earth to gain more love and tolerance for the world and that's truly what God wants.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

If you're Biblically literate, I would suggest citing the rather extensive list of mistakes that God failed to stop while he presided over them. Make them aware of their own failure to understand scripture, and you'll at least change the topic and remove their only argument my proving that they don't understand it themselves.

Or, assuming that both you and the overly-religious-but-ignorant-of-scripture Christians are not able to argue from the Bible well, you could turn it around and argue that God has created trans people to exist exactly as he made them - to transition, as a child is made to grow or a caterpillar to become a butterfly. If he makes no mistakes, why do churches fail to save people from the poverty their doctrine of charity dictates they reduce and why does prayer return unanswered for some? It probably won't work and it is no way a reasonable argument, but any actual argument with substantive evidence isn't going to go far with people like that.

If they're Muslim, it's easy - make them point to the passage in the Koran with any statement to prove it, and they won't be able to. Make them point to any statement against being trans, they can't. No such passages exist as the homophobic ones do.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

Probably the best response I heard to a question similar to this came from an Islamic Cleric from Iran. Since the Ayatollah decreed the right for transgender people to transition, they have had to defend the practice to the world and the average Iranian. When confronted with the question, "Isn't it unnatural and against Allah's plan to change his creation?" The cleric responded something along the lines of: 'Those who believe this are free to go back to living like savages in the wilds. We modify Allah's creation every day, when we turn clay and straw into brick, wheat into flour, and then flour into bread. Those who disagree with this modification are free to refuse to eat the food offered them, if they so choose.'

He would probably chop off my head if given the opportunity, but I could not help but laugh at the awesomeness of his comeback.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

I respect the religious beliefs of others and encourage them to view their circumstance in whichever ways they please, but there are few things that aggravate me more than the "God makes no mistakes"/"Everything has a purpose" rhetoric.

There are no high meaning or purpose to a relative of mine born with a neurological disability severe prevent him from mouthing his first word and taking his first step in his near two decades of life. There is no reasoning behind the millions of children struck with terminal illness before they've ever truly been able to life and discover their potential. Countless victims of disease, war, famine, rape, or mere chance whose lives happened to not end with convenient silver linings.

We are only able to reflect back and find meaning in the obstacles that were set in front of us after we overcome them. Everyone doesn't experience that luxury. We could all do without the generalized statements that only serve to romanticize suffering and struggle that never need to be felt.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

interestingly enough, Iran has fairly proggressive views on binary transgender people who wish to physically transition Transsexuality in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the rest? not so progressive, but it's something I guess.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

There's a few things I say to the "God doesn't make mistakes" argument. My favorite it the rainbow. According to the bible God created the rainbow to remind himself of the promise not to flood the earth again like with Noah's arc. If God doesn't make mistakes, why is a personal reminder necessary?

When it comes to the transgender topic... I don't really get why conservative religious groups have issues with transgender identities. They believe in carnal temptations and the immortal soul. Well, my immortal soul is male, not my carnal female body, and the 'easy rout' giving into temptation and all that would be me caving to the pressures of society and living falsely as a woman.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

If he doesn't make mistakes how do you explain genetic disorders, birth defects.... Need I say more? I'm not religious but if I was, I'd probably say there is a purpose for everything.... But certainly things are not made to be perfect. Everyone has problems! So, that argument is fairly silly and moot!

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

When I was a child and our headmistress would read from the bible about this or that, and tell us: "God doesn't make mistakes."

I always thought creating the snake and putting it in the Garden of Eden in the first place was a pretty big D'oh! moment.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

Overcoming a trial to gain some insight or strength seems like a good reason, for why a lot of problems exist... if your problems consist of having a headache or somebody spilling milk on your floor. It seems rather cruel... in other instances... to instill some kind of insight or lesson on someone if, say, they're being trafficked for sexual endeavors, being raped, or being killed several moments after being birthed -- these things are harder to justify.

What exactly is being taught here? That life fucking sucks, and that anybody who would allow this to happen, who has cosmic authority and endless power, must really dislike me. It'd be one thing if this all happened, and the one in charge were powerless to step in, but this is God we're talking about!

Again, that trial and tribulation stuff, only works out when the experiences aren't so... well, fucked up. Things like, again, a headache or spilled milk.

Usually when you bring this up, people tend to fire back with:

"God works in mysterious ways."

To understand how potentially insane this is...

Imagine if a politician had the authority to intervene, but they just allowed these things -- forced sex labor, rape, killing an infant, and so on and so forth -- to happen; to "teach a lesson". That politician would be burned alive at the stake, there would be no "But [insert politician's name here] works in mysterious ways".

That all said, here's something I've used before, and it tends to shut down the religious extremists:

Person: ___ is bad/wrong/immoral.
Me: Why?
Person: [personal belief shared here, maybe with a Bible passage or some crackpot theory]
Me: I think it's quite bad/wrong/immoral for people to have hearing aids or wear glasses.
Person: Why? That's silly!
Me: God obviously wants these people to be deprived of hearing, and to not see very well, if at all -- aren't you defying God by allowing this? Maybe God knows better than you do, I mean, he seems to know better on everything else, why not this too?

They either stutter, shut up, or storm off. I've used this same example for homosexuality as well, especially when the "it isn't natural" point comes up. Needless to say, it makes people think; bonus points, because it makes folks realize, how asinine some of this 'traditional' logic is.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

A good comeback might be. No he doesnt make mistakes, that is why he gave us the inteligence to invent new technologies. Including the technology necesary to make the blind see, and the legless walk, curing ilness and aligning my body with my brain. And i am grateful of that, have a nice day.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

I don't believe in god, I never did. So, this doesn't np other me because I am not religious.

And, I am Athiest not because I'm transsexual. I am simply because I do not believe in god.

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

God cant make mistakes because hes busy not existing

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

"Citation needed"

 

Re: [curious and learning] how do trans deal with the "God dont make mistake" argumen

Well, God doesn't make mistakes. Our gender identity and sexual orientations are created by him as well as our personality and physical characteristics. Being transgender/nonbinary is included in that. It's all a part of his plan.

Also, I think there's a Bible verse; I forgot what it was exactly, but it goes something like this:

"There is no good or bad, right or wrong, or man or woman, for we are all the same under Jesus Christ."

I probably quoted that way incorrectly (I'm a closeted agnostic, but my family is Christian, but I still rarely read the Bible, so..), but I'm pretty sure I got the message of the verse right.