General News Ferguson grand jury results

I don't know; it seemed to me like Skaros was making an effort to be objective and put real thought into his position.

I think an overwhelming majority of people can agree on one thing -- there should have been a better way to diffuse the situation than having an unarmed kid end up dead. Beyond that, only the police officer knows for sure what happened and people are going to have different opinions depending on what they believe actually happened.

For the record I believe it's unlikely that Michael would have continued trying to grab the gun after being shot the first time, but it's not impossible. Since we don't know conclusively what happened I don't think it's fair to demonize somebody for giving more weight to one account than another.

 

Unlike in the movies or on TV, people who are shot in real life can still be very aggressive and dangerous. In fact, only 1 out of 6 people shot by police die. This is a graphic example of someone who is still very dangerous after being justifiably shot by police. Here is another example.

This is a disturbing training video that shows the shooting death of trooper Mark Coates. In the encounter, he shot the suspect five times in the chest and assumed he was safe enough to take the time to radio for backup. When he radioed for backup, he received a fatal shot in the armpit from the suspect and gradually died. If he had not assumed that the five shots to the chest would have neutralized the threat, he wouldn't have made himself vulnerable by radioing for backup and probably would have survived. The suspect who was shot five times in the chest survived.

So far as I understand, the fact that suspects who are shot are very dangerous is why police are trained to shoot multiple times when they need to shoot.

 

I need to speak out on my thoughts on what's happening because I've been watching the debates between people for a few days now and I have to say, it's getting a little ridiculous.

NOW. BEFORE anyone attacks me, I'm not saying that being angry over the asshole who walked free is ridiculous. I'm not saying that mourning over someone's death is ridiculous. Everyone's right, Mike does deserve justice. Mike never deserved to get shot. Anyone else - regardless if he robbed a store - would not have been shot, not even once let alone 6 (?) times.

What I find ridiculous is the rioting, looting and blaming. Though the riots are understandable, the fact is, it's not going to solve anything. Being angry at the justice system is one thing but to burn down and loot businesses that belong to innocent people is another. People are now out of work, people who have to pay massive amounts of debts and some who can't restart their businesses because they don't have insurance. I'm not even concerned about Christmas right now. I'm thinking long term and not only that, I'm thinking about safety. There have been reports on people being injured and even killed and that to me.. like I don't mind if people are out there and protesting. I don't mind if they're taking their business to the right people, taking a stand and making sure that justice is served in an ADULT fashion.

That is what should be happening here. They already have the Government's attention and now they're trying to do something about it. Celebrities with voices are now speaking out and are bringing awareness to the world. I fear that if this rioting continues, the protests are going to eventually lead to nothing and Mike won't get his justice... and blaming this person and that person who said this, that, what, where and whatever isn't going to get anyone any justice either. I just hope that all this rioting stops and everyone as a collected group goes forward with this until things change.

 

Thank you Ausie792, SomeLeviathan, and the few others who are providing a voice of reason. I fear your words will not sway anyone, as the division on this matter falls upon familiar lines separating entrenched camps.

It saddens me to hear so much support for the law encroachment officers who are relentlessly and notoriously abusive with ALL different peoples, including our own. For disenfranchised groups to not have empathy for other disenfranchised groups' plight is a bit frightening.

 

I couldn't agree more.

There is not a single person on either side who relishes in aggressive behavior; however, to act as though excessive aggression is only being displayed on one side and to continue to put weight on the idealistic belief that aggression never accomplishes anything is to live in naivete. The rioting and looting of unconnected business is obviously not something that should be seen as acceptable, but the fact that single aspect of these demonstrations and protests has consumed the mind of all who wish to speak out against them shows that there are many who simply wish to fixate themselves on the negative result of these events rather than injustices that have been occurring throughout this country since its development and still exist today.

We can sit and pick apart the possibilities of this case. We can question the morality surrounding the actions of a small percentages of the protesters; however, one thing that is too often being overlooked is the bigger picture in all of this. Time and time again have Americans spoken out and protested against the dangers that exist in our justice system, the inequalities in the persecution of disenfranchised groups, not only legally, but by the media as well, and the corruption among those who are meant to serve.

There is no reason why this case was undeserving of a basic trial and legal care. There is not a single prominent legal association in the U.S. who agrees with this decision. From an further explanation of why, you can refer to my old post on the specifics of the indictment and grand jury system. We may never know the truth behind the events on that day, but absolutely nothing can explain the way in which this case was handled by the local authorities, by prosecution team, etc, other than pure corruption and legal malpractice. Malpractice that occurs far too frequently on members of minority groups. Not only people of color, but on transgenders, the lower class, etc. At some point is has to stop. At some point we have to start holding those who are given power within our societies to far higher standards than we do now.

The people within this thread who continue to emphasize and argue in favor of these protesters, even the people who take time out of there days to head down to these government buildings and continue to protest themselves, are not blind to the ways that this cause has been exploited through looting and destructive behavior. They aren't blind to the flaws that might have existed in the character of the Mike Brown. They are continuing to speak out because they recognize that there is a bigger picture here that needs to be address. A picture that won't even truly be solved with a reconsideration of this case. At some point, we must be able to be critical of the system that we live under and actively worked to improve upon the ways in which it continues to let us down.

Which I will emphasize one final time for absolutely clarity, the mere fact that this case and Mike Brown might not be the most perfect poster child for social and legal change does not invalidate the voices of those calling for much needed critique and correction in this country.

 

Have you ever figured that maybe instead of those statistics existing because of racism, that maybe, just MAYBE, those specific black people actually commit crimes and get sent to jail?

Not all black people are criminals, but that doesn't mean black people CAN'T be criminals.

As for the Ferguson case, the officer suspected he had a weapon and by Missouri law he is allowed to attack at that point, and I think that's good. You don't just wait to see "hmm better make sure it's actually a weapon" because then you're dead if it is.

 

I'm curious, how folks would feel towards this, if it was their loved one/family member, in Michael Brown's place...

Hm...

 

I would feel like shit because one of my family members is dead.

And yeah it sucks that he's dead. Doesn't make the police officer guilty of anything.

 

I agree. Nonsense analogy. Nobody thinks objectively when their relative is killed.

 

So it's ok to shoot someone who is running away - and six times? I find this unbelievable...how was this cop's life in imminent danger from someone who was running away, that he had to use lethal force? Can anyone explain?

 

Exactly. It also goes, for the other side of the coin, too.

 

I didn't think that was the story? Thought he continued assaulting the officer?

 

You just created a Straw of the argument. People of Color are disproportionately arrested, indicted, and jailed compared to white people. If you want to assert that those people are criminals, you have to provide a mechanism by which those rates of crime are far and above the crime rates compared to white people. If you think it is something innate to people of color, congratulations, you're a racist. If you think it is cultural forces, those cultural forces are most likely to be explained by racism (unless you think America is post-racial in which case I can't even have a conversation with you), which indicates a racist criminal justice system.

http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431
No Equal Justice: Race and Class in the American Criminal Justice System - David Cole - Google Books
"Racism in the Criminal Justice System" by Nichole Griffith
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/racism.pdf
Breaking Down Mass Incarceration in the 2010 Census | Prison Policy Initiative

There is a lot of evidence that Americas criminal justice system disproportionately effects people of color which indicates underlying racial bias. Stop trying to victim blame.

---------- Post added 27th Nov 2014 at 08:58 PM ----------

no. He is guilty of shooting a kid. The question is if he was justified in shooting or not. That puts the burden of proof on him to prove that it was a justified shooting in self defense. That is just one of the reasons this case not going to trial is so fucking absurd.

 

While I know everyone means well, can we please, please, please, please PLEASE stop the hate against people who aren't following your ways?

Michael Brown did NOT deserve to die, let me begin by saying that.

However, I will NOT partake in any group that thinks all police officers are scum and that all white folks are horribly racist and hate black people.
I am personally sick of those accusations. While you don't specifically state it, I feel that it's being insinuated.

I grew in a family that valued law enforcement. My grandfather was a judge for many years in my community. I am that side of the law - it is in me, just like some of you are on the other side.

I'm sorry if anyone is feeling this is unfair, but please - just think before you make statements like this. I am not a bad, naive, horrible person because I question both sides equally and that I don't know who I believe.

 

"How tasteless of them to blame us for the shortage of bread!" cried the grand seigneur as he ate his fourth croissant.

 

I am not reading where hatred is being applied to law enforcement.

 

Oh, pardon me for being such a bad person and leaving out the "officers." Excuse me for all the problems it caused.:dry:

 

This makes me sick. He was UNARMED. There is no excuse to shoot someone who is unharmed 7 times. Fox news has become so desperate on the idea that this cop was acting in self-defense that they tried to pass a shaving cut for a battle scar. I don't understand how anyone can say this is justifiable.

 

I'm probably the most authoritarian person on this forum and I'm not on the side of the officers in this situation.

That should tell you something about the circumstance.