Maybe I'm just old fashioned...

My best friend is married and as a couple they refuse the "husband" tag. It s always "partner".

The word is load with preconceptions. It also denotes a "wife" which near man is.

Husband ud dead, long live partner.

Tom

 

I honestly don't see why some gay people are bothered by other gay people using the term husband and wife for their partners . Maybe some people don't like to use the term partners . I find it a bit funny how some of hate labels all day long yet we will get upset at the names people call their lovers . I guess because we're trying to be heterosexual as something or playing into heterosexual norms .
Like really ? We're complaining about this I don't see how this can get anyone upset

 

Hi Benway,

I don't think you are old-fashioned at all...marriage is a very archaic institution. If you were old-fashioned you would not have a problem with it!

 

I personally prefer the term husband to partner (partner resonates to business like to me) however I am guilty of doing a double take when I hear a man refer to his husband/woman refer to her wife. That'll fade in time I suspect.

 

Marriage is a long established legal arrangement for two people who want to live together and share assets and responsibilities for each other in a predictable manner recognized by society and businesses. The "husband/wife" thing are simply language conventions to make it obvious which side of a couple you are referring to without using or even knowing their formal personal names. It seems funny to some of us to use those terms in a "gay" marriage, because we see only two "husbands" or two "wives" when we look at a gay couple, so the words lose their definitional value for identifying on sight which person we are talking about. Perhaps over time, new words will surface to replace "partner", but there is no obvious way to get back to the role of husband/wife identifying which of the parties you are talking about based purely on their physical sexual appearance in a gay marriage.

 

I hear the business thing...and I get it, kinda. But by contrast, I hear "husband" and I think "owner" and I hear "wife" and think "possession"...the original definition of marriage.

My partner and I are equals. We're not one to be loved, honored, and obeyed, and then another. We are two to love and are committed to one another, to share our resources, plan the future together, and to work through life's challenges together. That *sounds* pretty much like what partners do.

When people like/prefer the "traditional" terms, I can respect that...I get/trust they don't *mean* ownership. But I become *extremely* uncomfortable when people basically put their language on us, and insist on calling my partner my wife. Makes me want to take a shower and scrape it off.

 

We are all of us conditioned and indoctrinated to carry society's crap in out head, including the 'approved' reaction to such 'forbidden' activities.

It's long-talked about that homosexuals/L/G/B/T/Q folks tend to be even more committed than others to have an internal homophobic response. We all grow up wanting to 'do the right thing' and be accepted by others...even if it isn't a conscious response.

I've been out for nearly 30 years and still have to combat some types of anti-gay old tapes. They are just that powerfully implanted!

 

The institution of straight marriage was invented so that men could legally own women, just like the rest of the property transfer from the bride's father to her future husband (can anyone say "dowry"?). It's part and parcel of perverted and destructive patriarchal - and worse: patrilineal - social and legal structures that the world seems to take for granted (to varying degrees).

The very idea of slavery - however nicely dressed up it may be with ritual and costume - ignites a fiery rage within me. Human beings are not property; the treatment of anyone as an object threatens everyone's civil rights.

Yes, such is the world we live in. Yet every time a pair of people unite their lives in a true partnership, by the exercise of their rights as legitimate human beings to engage in contracts free of force or fraud, they strike a blow against slavery and oppression. It doesn't matter whether the partnership is gay or straight or something in between, and neither do the labels.

What's really needed for this changing world is new terminology. I'm so sick and tired of these tired old labels and the obsessive pigeon-holing that goes with it. Words have power, to uplift and to demean, and obviously many words we use no longer apply: husband and wife? boyfriend and girlfriend? master and slave? Those words should no more apply to straight partners than they do to gay partners. I'm not a linguist (and I don't play one on TV) so unfortunately word invention isn't a forte of mine. Hopefully, someday, some smarter someone will do so.

 

I have been an observer of people since I was about 3 years old.
How they act.
What they say.
The way they think.
How they feel.

I am no professional, and I dont claim to be. But I am a professional human, and I have had years of experience observing the most intricate details about humans and how they work.


That feeling you described, is called jealousy.

Before you jump up and say you dont have a jealous bone in your body.....you do.

Just as depression has thousands of different ways it expresses itself in a human, so does jealousy.

I have not read your history, but from your so specific description in your avatar box, I can see you are on the edge.

The edge of what? I do not know. I would have to get to know you in person to figure that one out. But somewhere in the recesses of your mind, you know. Because you know you better than anyone else.

You are only 26? You state you have not been outside of your area?

I hazard a guess that you have never been outside your "bubble" or comfort zone either. And for someone who is still a young adult, that is more damaging than physical abuse for someone such as you.

Words are just words. They describe things, they tell us what is on someones mind.
But we also attach "tags" to them, so we know what those words mean. And many words that mean something as generalized as "husband" also have many different meanings to many different people.

The concept of marriage has as many definitions and "background" history as words themselves. Depending on what reference you find most intriguing about how and why marriage started, is also based on what concept you have of marriage.


I would surmise, just from reading your post and responses, that for whatever reason, you have never had good relations with anyone who has been married.....whether that be your parents, friends, teachers, or co-workers..........something somewhere in your life so far has had a huge destructive force placed into your psyche about marriage.

This could also lead to jealousy of sorts. You seem to have animosity towards the married, or those who wish to be married........which also leads to jealousy.


I would suggest that you dig down into your past, your present, and your psyche to find out why these things make you jealous. Once you begin to understand yourself and how you see these things, you can then start to figure out how to deal with this and conquer it.

Once you start to understand yourself and conquer your "demons", the happier you will be with yourself, and not have as many bothersome things clogging up your emotions and personality, or mind.

 

In all of my research into the etymology of 'marriage' I have a vastly different view on its origins and the origins of both 'husband' and 'wife' however I completely respect your view point and would never refer to someone in a manner they aren't comfortable with.

 

If you don't like "husband" or "wife," why don't you just use "spouse"?

 

I used to feel very uncomfortable with the idea of a "husband" (I wasn't impressed with "partner" either but it seemed preferable) until I met a guy who I actually wanted to BE my husband. Feels much more natural now, even though we're a long way from being able to get married.

 

The word "marriage" itself and its etymological origins are fine. It's the history/origins of the institution to which I object and with which I choose not to associate myself.

"Husband" comes from the Scandinavian; roughly "man of the house"...or more in the context of the time of origin, "he who owns the house, takes care of it, and orders things there". As opposed to "wife", which is "woman"...but again, in the context of the time of origin, that is "woman-as-property"...."the husband's woman". So he owns the house...and the wife.

I'd be curious to hear your etymological and historical understandings.

I appreciate your sensitivity in not using terms that [you know] people aren't comfortable with...but in most cases you don't know whether a person would be uncomfortable...so if your default is "husband/wife", you may offend unwittingly, and unless the target is outspoken (or an outright overly analytical bitch like me), they probably won't speak up afterward either. Of course, you run the same risk using "partner". *sigh* Perhaps it's no wonder people are valuing language and communication less and less.

 

My understanding of the term etymologically is the same, when you state it as 'context of time' I get your point more clearly.

It's an interesting comparison to the sentiment that some in the anti-gay 'sector' take with the 'you can't just change the meaning of the word' argument that I've often come across where I revert to a list of the above mentioned words and a few dozen others that are used regularly that now no longer represent what they originally had.

From the 'biblical' sense of the terms I totally get the shudder feeling associated with them I just choose to redefine them how they fit.

We live in a society where you almost can't say anything without offending someone and even if you choose the silent route that still offends people. I'm not a politically correct person in many regards but believe intent should count-if someone uses a term with no ill intent simply not knowing the other finds it offensive it should be taken with the intent and corrected if deemed necessary in my opinion.