Its time to give up on this

well son, only you can decide what's best for you and yours, but if you change your point of view on the subject at some future date remember that there is no shame in being true to yourself and living whatever life you find authentic at that time. all the best(*hug*)

 

Pete1970 I wish you all the best, I've had that same thought but somehow it is working out ok. Just be true to yourself is all I would suggest. No matter what you choose we are here to support you.

 

I came out to my wife of 2+years at the age of 26. I wanted to tell her before we had kids. She was not happy! We broke up for two months and then got back together. I tried to be more open with her about my sexuality afterward, but the topic made her uncomfortable. Within two months I was effectively back in the closet again, where I (more or less) happily stayed.

It turned out that my wife never felt secure in our relationship after I came out. On the rare occasion when we'd fight, she would inevitable say, "I just know you're going to leave me for someONE some day." She always emphasized the gender-neutral "someONE."

Eventually, I got tired of hearing that accusation, because it wasn't true. One day I very aggressively made it clear that, no, I was NEVER going to leave her. Once I did that, only then did she seem to get it.

Looking back now, I see that once my wife understood that she was going to be married to a gay man forever, is when she first started to think about whether that's what SHE wanted for the rest of her life.

It's turned out that she didn't. Within two years of that pivotal "I'm never leaving" conversation, my wife got involved with another man and left me.

I have since learned that, when pressed, very few straight woman truly want to be married to a gay man, even one they love and have kids with.

Most women who will consider the idea want their husband to remain monogamous - and that's what I did. I also doted on her, made most of the money in the household, and did most of the child-rearing. (I was such a hands-on parent that when we separated, all three kids wanted live with me.) From my point of view, there wasn't much more I could do to be a gay husband worth keeping...and yet...I wasn't.

As you might expect, because of my experience, I'm pretty leery about whether mixed orientation marriages are a good idea. I think what's especially tough is what happens when the kids are out the house and the two of you are left to recreate a new, fulfilling life together. Love and respect are essential, but they're also givens. Even when love is unquestioned, there's still the matter of feeling fulfilled on a daily basis. For a mixed orientation marriage to work, you both have to feel that you are, and on far more days than you don't.

All of this is my long way of saying: your decision to stay isn't only about your willingness to compromise. It's just as much about your wife's willingness to do the same. Her immediate reaction might be (probably will be), "I'm so happy! This is exactly what I wanted!" But is it?

In fact, what I think makes the decision to stay seem like a good one is that it's the least-bad short-term option. Breaking up is far worse, so staying together is better. Is that the way both of you want to live the rest of your lives? By taking the least-bad short-term option?

One other factor to consider, one that many straight women care about tremendously, is whether they're going to be older and single. Most women would rather be single at 45, and be a single parent, than be single at 65, with grown children. Why? Because, as difficult as finding someone new can be as a middle-aged single parent, it's easier to find love and start a new life at 45 than 65.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I suggest that you have a very long, very open conversation with your wife and talk about these issues. Then let her ponder them for a week or two. Giving her that time to think is very important. Making a fast decision isn't important. Making a good one is. After all, if you're going to fully and honestly re-commit to her, she needs time to be certain she can do the same for you.

 

Pete, I can relate to your situation a lot. I had given up too and I was angry when someone told me I had and that I scarified my own happiness to my family. I thought that knowing I contributed to breaking up the family would prevent me to be happy anyway. I thought that if I had been OK with living like that in the beginning of my marriage, I would be able to continue with it for the rest of my life.
But once the cat was out of the bag, the situation was very different. Not only because how my spouse treated me but also because the fact of "giving up" influenced my self-esteem and the feeling of self-worth.
But I needed more than a year to come from the "willingly giving up" to the "tipping point". Take your time and don't feel bad about it. I also felt like I needed to make the decision and stick to it for the rest of my life. I also kept saying that I had made my decision when I had married.
It's true that a divorce can do emotional damage to kids. And it's also true that if kids grow up in a family where their parents are cold to each other it will influence them as well and can do damage to their potential relationships in the future. Because they will see it as a standard.
Take a break from decision making and give yourself a permission to start thinking about it again in the future.

And "the least-bad option" is so true. Perhaps one day you will realize that to have that least-bad option granted is not as good as having even only a tiny hope that things will be better.

 

Set timline with wife in advance...

e.g. staying until youngest is 18

 

Pete and all,
This thread grips me hard. Now at 59 I feel so much this way. I made the choice to be married with kids. One is now out working and the other at university. The cat is out of the bag about my feelings and my wife feels I have a 'card' that can be played at any time calling an end to our marriage. She feels I have the "upper hand" in our relationship and that it is no longer 'equal'. So, even though I am struggling about whether to leave the marriage now or recommit, I am beginning to think it really will never be the same now that she knows more about my personal awareness of my sexuality. I actually feel that with my indecision and inaction, she is moving forward trying to decide whether she is willing to stay in such a relationship. She does not talk a lot about that, but her deadlines and action planning seem clear.
So, all this to say... I respect what you're doing immensely as I too think I have no right to focus on my needs since I've "done this" to my family. I will work to have a happy, loving family and loving relationship with my wife. However, with time.. I'm not sure it is going to move forward in this way. And, in the end, would my wife and I look back at 'wasted time in our lives when we were not true to ourselves and truly happy'.

 

Things between my wife and me were already strained before I came out to her, so I can't really make the claim that I'm "losing my best friend" in all this, as some have said. I'd say it's very clear the SHE is losing HER best friend, since I have spent 20+ years being there for her, working behind the scenes of her many activities to make her look good, figuring out the things that she accepted without knowing that she really wasn't qualified, and allowing her to follow every dream that she was certain would make her happy, but never quite did.

If that sounds a tad bitter, perhaps it is. I did all those things with the intention of being the perfect husband and friend to her, but I finally came to realize, to my shock and sadness, that it was a one-way street, and the kindness and acceptance and appreciation that I craved just weren't there. Some of that realization gave me the strength to tell her in the first place, because for years and years, I really never had any intention of coming out. And initially I was devastated, far more because of what I felt I had "done to her" and the kids, than how it would affect me.

But what did I "do", really? Sure, I knew I was interested in guys. But I had a very warped idea of what being gay meant, and feared rejection from family and friends without potentially having any new community to go to, so coming out was too frightening an option. So I got married and worked endlessly to make my wife happy and make as good a life for our children that I could. I was unlucky or desperate enough to fall for someone who was an emotional black hole of need that she was utterly incapable of reciprocating, but I really tried, and wore myself out trying, all the while ignoring my own orientation.

My point is, we didn't just "do this" to our wives and children. We "did it" to ourselves as well. If she and I had had a more equitable and positive relationship, I might very well have tossed a few thoughts out on EC, decided that I'd be losing more than I was gaining by coming out, and firmly shut the closet door because I was happy enough where I was. Perhaps some of you feel that way, and if so, I wish you strength and I'm a little jealous that your marriages were such a positive thing.

But mine wasn't, although it took me many years to face that fact. If being gay has played enough on your mind to come here and talk about it, and then agonize over it for long periods of time, perhaps something really crucial is missing in your relationship, and things aren't as positive as you want to believe they are.

Being gay isn't just about what turns you on or who you sleep with or whether you're a top or a bottom. It's how you're emotionally wired for happiness and fulfilment and emotional health. If your relationships with your wives are so positive that being gay doesn't matter, as I say, I'm a little jealous, but if not, think long and hard about your own well-being before you close the door again. I had absolutely no idea the extent to which I was emotionally shut down until I really decided being out was better, and meeting gay friends and being involved in a relationship has made me realize how negative and withdrawn I was before. Please, please don't take this as me pressuring you to come out, because I totally respect it if you don't or can't. Just be sure your decision takes your own self into account, and not just guilt about what you may or may not have "done" to anyone. You're a person too. Never forget that.

 

Did you just put yourself into my head! What you wrote seems as if you just read my mind! That is exactly where I was when I came out, and I could not be happier that I did so.

 

I sort of feel like I'm not entitled to respond to this one--I came out relatively early and life and certainly never married a woman, although I was involved with several. On the one hand I actually sort of respect your decision--I've known a lot of people who came out later in life with wives and kids and I've always felt really terrible for everyone involved and there's something about just sucking it up and pretending that I find kind of admirable.

On the other hand, I don't think it works. The thing is what you are basically doing is giving up your happiness for the sake of those who care for you. But, people who genuinely care for you will want you to be happy (and trust me, they'll know--they may not know why you're unhappy but they'll know that you are and eventually they will know that it has something to do with them) so really the plan only works if the people involved don't genuinely care for you and then, well, you've given up your life for people who don't genuinely care for you...

The example that comes to mind--and I hesitate to use it because I'm afraid it trivializes the situation and I certainly do not think the stakes are anything other than grave but it keeps coming back to mind as I think of the situation--is that of my aunt when I was growing up. One of my aunts loved to throw dinner parties--actually more like family get-togethers over dinner. We had a pretty tight-knit extended family with lots and lots of aunts and uncles and cousins and the like. They were big get-togethers of people who genuinely liked each other and they should have been great parties. But every time my aunt would fuss through the whole meal--there were water glasses to fill and a couple extra side dishes to prepare and the finishing touches to put on dessert. And she would do this the entire meal. Her place setting would sit there literally empty through the entire meal. Her husband hated it and would beg her to just sit down and eat, her children would try to take on whatever tasks were taking her from the table and be swatted away, my mother (her sister) would try to help out so she could at least eat just a little. Nothing worked. She had a notion of how these things worked and what was required of her for her family to have a wonderful dinner and she couldn't divert from it--any chance she might actually enjoy herself at dinner, make conversation or even eat took backseat to making sure everything was perfect for everyone else. And then later when we were playing games you'd find her eating hurriedly off a plate over the sink alone. She was so determined that these dinner parties be a success, so determined that her family have a great experience that... well, they were awful and awkward and just made people feel bad for her and for everyone in attendance.

If only she had said, yes I want everyone to have a great time and enjoy a great meal, but that includes me getting to sit down and make conversation and enjoy the meal I've prepared--I guess maybe there would have been a couple less side dishes, maybe there wouldn't have been dessert, maybe a couple of her kids would have to help with the cooking (what we did at my house), maybe someone else would occasionally have to pop up to grab something from the kitchen... and they would have been exponentially more enjoyable. And maybe I would remember them fondly rather than with a bit of shudder all these years later.

I don't know exactly why I keep flashing on that particular instance. But I think it's relevant. Children can tell when their parents are unhappy or unfulfilled, spouses if they are on at all the same wavelength can tell too--and if a family is at all close one of their own being unhappy for years on end, even if it is to try to make the others happy, will just make them all unhappy in the end. Just my two cent--I hope whatever decision you come to brings you and your family happiness.

 

I'm 17 and already out of the closet so me answering this may seem stupid, but I just want to say...

Pete, I can appreciate the fact that you're looking out for the wellbeing of your family, however in life, you really do have one purpose (in my opinion)... To live to the fullest extent of your own happiness. Your children will love and accept you no matter what you do. Your wife, while she will likely be disappointed, she will get over it. Financially, there are plenty of couples with children who split apart though they aren't wealthy. The government has different things to help that and I'm not fully knowledgeable about the topic but I believe that there are financial aid systems that could be of use.

As someone who still lives with my parents, I can tell you that seeing them split up would really not be all that difficult. I don't know how old your kids are, but if they are at a certain age, I can assure you that your happiness and comfort would make them unbelievably happy.

You're in your 40's. You still have a life to live and I don't think living closeted is the best permanent choice. You will feel immense relief if you come out one day. I feel pain just imagining the difficulties you're going through and I understand why you would suggest staying closeted, but I want you to know that you deserve so much more. Your family will be just fine if you come out. I'd say once your kids are even 14, you should be free. Even 12. Once they are mentally able to think logically and understand both sides of a situation, I think things will be fine. There are many people on this site who were in similar situations as you, and came out of the closet and it turned out amazingly. Please don't close off the potential for you to feel complete happiness.

I hope you do read these responses, because some people above me made amazing posts and I think you would benefit from them. Stay strong, and good luck (*hug*)

 

What a huge, difficult, painful place to be. I greatly respect the enormity of your decision to stay with your wife and kids. It must indeed be so tiring wanting to put yourself first and at the same time not wanting to let your family down who you have committed to and who you love. Don't feel bad or guilty about just accepting the reality of that pain. Who else would feel differently?
I suppose my questions would be that if your wife and kids know you are gay how do they feel about you denying this integral part of yourself so that you can ensure their own happiness. How much do they 'get' how unavoidable and all encompassing admitting ones true and inconvertible sexuality is? What would they say about your decision to stop pursuing this side of your being for them?
I think 'Clay's' comments from a young person's (your kids potential) perspectives is very pertinent. Sorry, I am not trying to dissuade you from your decision, I am just worried that you are bearing the brunt of this, taking the hit, sublimating your authentic self and in the end this will always be painful however deep you bury it. Sorry for my bluntness…All my heartfelt thoughts in your ongoing decisions

 

Pete,

Your decision is one that has come up for me many times in the last months since coming out to myself and to my family. I am about your age, and the relationship I have had with my wife has been a genuinely loving, gentle, understanding, compassionate, caring relationship. She has been my best friend, and still is. We also have a son, and any decision we make has to be one that considers his well being as highly as ours.

I don't know about your wife, but when I told my wife that I am gay, she grasped the magnitude of it in a way that I did not. At the time, I thought that just being able to face this truth about myself was enough, and hoped that it would help me to be more available. We did not talk about it often- my wife did not want to hurt or embarrass me, and I couldn't even face the pain myself- but at times- and especially when we tried to make love, I would shut down, and could not understand why. She tried to reach out to me, she asked me to get help- but I did not do it. I thought that when I faced this, that I could open up in the way she hoped I would. But when I told her I was gay, that opening closed. We still love and care for each other, but our relationship is changed forever.

I don't consider myself trying to live the gay life. Today. I just want to live. And now that I am opening myself up to that truth of myself, I can see how much I had shut down. In the moments I tried to go back into that closet (and the pressure can be extremely high with family and job situations) I felt the most awful pain inside. One day, I felt like my heart dropped to the floor at the thought of going back. I had trouble even breathing. As I talk about this with my wife, she does not want to see me shut down ever again. That helps.

I do not know what the future holds. Right now we are in the early stages of separation, and each experiencing the pain and grief in our own ways. But we are working together to maintain what is good in our relationship and care for our son.

As I step out into the world and explore this part of my self, I am amazed at how wonderful and natural feeling it is. There is a substantial difference in the way that I relate and feel towards men. I never knew. These first steps have been surprisingly good. And there are moments when I feel more alive than ever before.

Pete, I hope that you are able to discern a path that is life giving for you and for your family. I also hope you know you are not alone, and that it is not all on your shoulders.
I wish you well.

 

Best wishes and I completely understand...Follow your heart!

 

Hi Pete,

Just wanted you to know I understand and respect your decision. I'm pretty much in the same place you are -- and I'm at peace with that. I wish you all the best.

 

Hey Pete,

We're behind what any of the members choose, as long as it doesn't jeopardize their health or someone else's, largely in a medical context.

I haven't been in this situation though most of the Later in Life contributors seem to have experienced it. However, I've been friends and acquaintances with people who chose to separate, people who lived a dual life, and people who stayed together with a spouse despite the revelation.

Only you know all the variables involved in your specific situation. They can't really be fully conveyed across cyberspace. That said, you are in the best position to weigh those variables and decide, and it sounds like you have.

Also, people change and people change their minds in many aspects of life. I'm not advocating anything by stating that. The only opinion and decision that matter here are yours. We are here to listen and support you.