Thoughts on LGBTQ grouping and Pride?

Hi thesonoferik. We had a thread similar to this quite a while back and things got a little heated when it was proposed that the T shouldn't be grouped with the LGBQ. If I remember correctly, the majority disagreed.

Personally, I can see where you're coming from. Too often, people confuse gender and sexuality and the unity of LGBTQ doesn't help this. However, when you look at it we're not all that different. Whether trans, gay, bi-sexual, lesbian, or queer, we all fall outside of the old fashioned societal views about sexuality and gender. For example, I may be a man but to some people, I will always be a woman no matter what. We are all at risk of marginalization and discrimination in the society which we live in. We are all striving to live our lives according to who we are and not what our family or society tells us we should be.

I'm not especially fond of the idea of 'trans pride' but you know, perhaps I should be. After all, how do we expect society to change if we're sitting here doing nothing about it? How can we expect people to accept who we are when we're too ashamed to be part of 'trans pride'?

 

I agree. When I transition (at least when I am on T and have a male voice) I'm going "stealth". I want to be recognised as a cis guy as well.

 

I feel the same. I have gay pride, I don't mind people knowing about that, but I feel differently about being trans. I plan on going stealth. I'll be open about my sexuality, but keep all my gender past to myself. If someone else wants to have trans pride, that's fine, I just personally don't really feel it. I don't see why it's a problem to have the T with the LGB+ though

 

I feel like this entirely depends on the person and how the want to move forward post-transition. Personally I have no interest in being stealth, though it would be impossible as a non-binary individual, but I completely respect that some people want to be. You've been denied the experience of being unequivocally accepted as your true gender your entire life and want to enjoy it. It depends on whether or not you are ok constantly putting yourself out their day after day as an advocate. Even if you only want to be open about your gender identity, because of the relative invisibility of trans people if you are open you are almost forced into an advocacy role as everyone and their mother is going to ask questions, out you in the line at the dmv, at the grocery store, etc., it becomes your life day in day out. I think being proud of your trans identity doesn't need to mean being open, just not being ashamed. You can be proud of who you are and the strength you've shown through your transition and still be stealth.

 

When I transition (if I pass), I plan on going stealth and keeping it that way. It's getting to the point where I see the community as being too full of bullies, drama and policing and it's pathetic and irritating to hear people only run their mouths about how they hate gofundme pages than it being a community of people who are looking out for one another.

 

I guess in my experience it has never been that big a deal, since I've always known a lot of cis straight people that were into pride. My friends growing up were into theater and drama, and so I got exposed to LGBT stuff through that.

Personal pride for me comes from accomplishing things. I think you can be more proud if you do it with handicaps. And being trans can be a handicap. But whether I am trans or not this is just about setting goals and reaching them.

As far as capital P Pride, as in "the be who you are and don't be ashamed movement", yeah, trans isn't who I am, it's where I am. The genderqueer people that are at home where I am now, Trans Pride is more for them. I should mention that I wouldn't have made it here to begin with without that kind of Pride. But here isn't where I want to end up. Here isn't any more right than where I started really.

So who I am as far as LGB, is gay. Who I am as far as T, is I think, an ally. I still really care about other people's crippling dysphoria, and all the BS that keeps people terrified and ashamed and trapped in the closet, and the hard time a lot of us have getting decent medical care if we need it. Issues that I had a hard time dealing with, I want people in the future to have an easier time with.

Culturally, most people still have dumb visceral reactions to beautiful things like two men kissing. Trans people don't have it much better. While it's something not all of us want, and something we don't really like having to discuss or bring up all the time (any more than a gay couple wants to bring up their sex life), the thought of genital surgery really just puts a lot people off. When someone is visibly gender variant, that just rubs some people the wrong way. And people take these irrational emotional reactions, and push political agendas based on them. That's really what we're up against.

There's downsides to us all being lumped together. It's harder for us gay people to be viewed as the gender we are, cis or trans. People just assume that gay men are more effeminate, and gay women are more masculine, whether or not they are. I think there are tons of upsides. Us trans folk are typically gay before we come out, or gay after, or we're bi, or we discover our sexuality is different (and often discover we have one at all) when we dramatically change our starting point. Also with us grouped together, someone who maybe is trans but can't do anything about it, has a community and ways to cope still.

But by and large, to cis straight people pushing against us, we're all the same anyway. And I think that fact by itself is why LGBT makes sense to me.

 

I often ask myself, if I passed 100%, would I be stealth, and I'm never sure of my answer. Ideally, I would love to live in a world where being trans is just a non-issue...like, "Oh, you need to transition? Ok, let's get that taken care of..." Like, thought of as being as commonplace as going to the hairdresser, and as important as a heart bypass. And in that world, I would get it taken care of, and then that would be that, I wouldn't have to think about it further.

But we don't live in that world. We live in a world where trans people are still the butt of the throwaway joke about "ah, that not a woman!!" followed by vomiting, and where trans women and men are being murdered, and newpapers reporting them use labels like "shemale" and downplay who they are to dehumanize them.

Yes, the T is different than the LGB and even the Q in that it's who you are, not who you love, I still think we need to support one another, in the same way that white people need to stand up for POC and feminism is for everyone. I think it's about being a decent human being.

So I think, whether I pass or not when I'm fully done my transition, I'm still going to be there supporting the community, for the guys and girls just starting their (very frightening) journeys, for the being oppressed because they want to be whom they are, and for the ones who we already lost, in the naïve hope that the last one you hear about is the last one there is, and we can some day get to that first world I mentioned.

Geez...I'm all thoughtful-like this morning...

 

I cannot see myself being proud and open about being transgender, when I can be I am a stealth man.

 

(*hug*)(*hug*)

 

That completely makes sense, and there's no reason for you not to do just that, at any point.

 

While I understand the reservation about having "trans pride" I think it is VERY important that we continue to be part of the LGBTQ movement for legal and social reasons. I work in the law and I studied the law, and up until recently, the majority of the law (in the U.S.) has not been very favorable to trans people. It's really only because of the widespread recognition of LGBTQ as a movement that some states (like mine, yay Minnesota) have laws protecting gender identity from discrimination. I cannot lose my job for being a transwoman (ideally) because some important decisions were made to include the "T" in LGBTQ (or GLBTQ whichever you prefer), even if being trans doesn't really relate to sexuality.

I understand you just want to be seen as a woman, (I do too) but by being willing to have trans pride or supporting trans pride, you can become more than just a woman. you can become an empowering woman, one who stands up and says "hey! status quo! you are total crap and don't represent the people like me, and there are a lot of us!"

you don't have to participate in the movement if you don't want to, but you should definitely allow others or even encourage others who want to participate to do so because they are making the world an easier place to live in for people like us.

just my two cents.

 

i had a hard time with identifying as trans and having trans pride until i went "stealth". now it's kind of like a hidden identity, that sometimes i tell people about. being trans still kind of feels like a hinderance, though.