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Gay guys who use the pronoun "she" ... for other gay guys

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Tightrope, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. Tightrope

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    First, this is the exception rather than the rule. However, you might be talking to a gay guy who will do this, or a gay friend of his will join the conversation and start doing this. I've experienced it no more than 5 or so times in my life.

    You will hear these guys make comments about other guys like this:
    "She always used to be in a good mood. I have to give her a good talkin' to."
    "A lot of fine bitches used to go to that gay bar but it has gone downhill."
    "Girls, please, don't eat too much. You need to leave room for dessert."

    I am disgusted by this. Most of the time, they are referring to guys who see themselves as guys, albeit gay guys. I have never seen this among bisexual men.

    I don't understand this. I don't even think it's an appropriate way to talk about an effeminate gay man who sees himself as a man. What is this sort of talk all about?
     
  2. Acm

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    I don't understand that either, it's weird and confusing. I would think that most guys would take offense to that, effeminate doesn't make someone a women.
     
  3. Chip

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    I, too, find it annoying and stupid.

    My sense is that it is a dated thing you see mostly with older gay guys, and probably has its roots in essentially taking back and owning a derogatory aspect, in much the same way many gay people have adopted "faggot" as a term of affection used with each other.

    But particularly with all the current brouhaha about gender roles and the rise in transgender identities, I think at the very least it is disrespectful.
     
  4. Hexagon

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    If the people being called 'she' are okay with it, then I don't really see a big problem.
     
  5. Chiroptera

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    I see no problem with it, if you aren't trying to offend someone based on their gender.

    With all due respect, but a considerable part of the world wants us dead, why worry about pronouns that aren't being used with the intention to disrespect?

    I have LOTS of gay friends who talk that way (not all times), and they aren't trying to offend anyone, trans or cis.
     
    #5 Chiroptera, Oct 3, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  6. Abdadhie

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    I've never heard that used...
     
  7. jaska

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    I think it's a bit weird, yeah but I think it's kind of cool, I mean, they're just words right? In a way it's rebellious, even if that isn't the intention. Imagine if everyone used random pronouns on each other regardless of identity, it could actually be a good thing. For example, "ze went to the park to meet his brother, xavier. She then suggested they got ice creams because it was a very hot day." Or imagine if there was no such thing as pronouns at all and everyone was referred to as like bee/bem or something like that.
    But yeah, I think the real reason is probably rooted in gender stereotypes and such.
     
  8. IS92

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    While personally I find it a bit weird, if it's not something done to purposely offend someone, then they're not hurting anything. As others have said, it's just words in that case. If the people involved don't care, then I don't see why anyone else should.
     
  9. HappyGirlLucky

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    My knee-jerk reaction is to get offended, because uneducated observers would get further "proof" that trans women are just confused gay guys. I'm very tired of that misconception. On the other hand, if the guy being called "she" is fine with it then who am I to tell them they can't be called that? I think the latter reaction is the healthier one, and it's definitely the one I'll stick with. The uneducated observer is the one who needs to get informed instead of people having their freedom of speech stifled because it'd be easier.

    I come from a country where that is the case. We do not have gendered pronouns in my native language and we never refer to each other as "ma'am" or "sir" ever. The words for "sir" and "ma'am" do exist, but they are considered extremely dated.

    Makes it a lot harder to figure out whether you pass or not as binary trans, but a lot easier on non-binary people I'm sure. :slight_smile:
     
    #9 HappyGirlLucky, Oct 3, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  10. Mith

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    I have a gay friend who sometimes does that, but he does it as a mockery of the homophobes who think that gay="super effeminate guy who would like to be a woman": he is quite effeminate and he has been mocked for that, personify the sterotype is a way to ridicule the stereotype itself and who believes in that.
     
  11. Damien

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    When I wrote about my girly dancing style here, and someone commented 'you go girl!', I found it funny and I think the other instances you spoke of are also not meant too seriously. Maybe a really masculine guy might feel offended by being called a 'bitch' or a girl, but I must say it doesn't offend me.
     
  12. gravechild

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    It used to offend me, because I thought they were simply mocking women by overplaying stereotypes, but after discovering it was more of a response towards homophobia and sexism, and a way to identify with other gay men, I became more open to the idea, and that's pretty much where I am now.

    I actually feel more comfortable seeing people subvert gender norms, and after years of being called dudemanbro, it's refreshing for a change. If the person being referred to by those terms doesn't have a problem with it, then I don't see an issue with it. After all, we refer to groups of mixed gender crowds as "guys", and while it's not exactly the same, still gets the point across that language can be flexible (even if people always aren't).
     
  13. Tai

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    I don't mind it at all. I'd be annoyed if they did that to me specifically, because I am a gay male who used to be female, and they would be bringing out my old gender, but for cis men, I don't see a problem.
     
  14. SextonOutlaw

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    In the 'old' days, when being in the closet was nearly a requirement, and people feared for jobs, family, health, and social standing based on the closet, those pronouns were a
    useful code.

    They became a subculture's way of expressing itself through a wink-and-a-nudge, as well as reflecting the times we grew up in where men who were gay were deemed womanly. (Here in the deep South, to this day, even children will speak to a gay man and--unintentionally--say "Yes ma'am" or "No, ma'am" because this is how they are raised to think!)

    My friend E and I are older, and quite from habit we call each other "Missy" and use feminine pronouns. We are both identified as men, consider ourselves men, and are not insulting one another by saying 'girl' or 'Miss Lady.' It's just a piece of the past, a cultural leftover, that we slip into.
     
  15. HappyGirlLucky

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    Interesting, I didn't know it has been used like that. Isn't it kind of an obvious "code", though? Wouldn't people start asking questions when you refer to men by female pronouns, especially in those days? :confused:
     
  16. flatlander48

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    Remember that it relates to a much less sophisticated and less enlightened time. Most people who might overhear "she" would think that someone was talking about a female. With today's lens, it might raise a question.

    In the past, there were MANY coded messages; whole songs even. In view of this, look up the lyrics to "My Secret Love" and consider it from a 1950's perspective and from a 2000's perspective...
     
  17. WhiteRaven

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    I think it's a bit weird, and since I am trans and still in early stages of transition (pre T, but living as male most of the time), I WOULD be very offended if a gay guy calls me she, as I have very bad associations with that pronoun... but for the rest... when a guy is ok with it and it's not used to offend someone, whatever man. It's a bit weird, but what's normal anyway? Lol :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  18. stormborn

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    i've never really heard of this being used before. i tend to say "girl" a lot when i'm joking around, to people of any gender, but i kind of use that like i do "dude"
     
  19. birdking

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    Doesn't bother me unless it's said intentionally to offend someone.
     
  20. An Gentleman

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    That's a little strange, but as long as they aren't implying that gay men are women, I don't care.